A way to improve Ranked PVP

Discussion in 'PvP Discussion' started by Loujitsu, May 16, 2017.

  1. Loujitsu Nen God

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    So I sent in a ticket to Neople addressing some of the issues with ranked PVP that I feel they can actually do something about (no not the lag) but the RP system in general. Neople felt I should share my idea with the community and get your thoughts so here they are. Any feedback is welcomed.

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    TL;DR: Make every ranked PVP match reward the winner with a minimum of 2 RP for winning and make the loser lose a maximum of 10 RP for defeat. This way there no longer has to be any matchmaking restrictions into who a person can get paired up with in the arena since our player pool is small as it is, this should help with the crazy long wait times between matches.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  2. it sounds like the problem is that you're extremely high RP, and solely getting matched with people several hundred RP below you.

    *conjecture*

    RP is your true rank. thus, your are being matched up with other players based on RP. Gains and losses would be based strictly on the RP difference between players. In an ideal world where people actually PVP, there would be enough players at every skill level to match players of close to equal skill consistently.

    minimum/maximum rank adjustment could cause problems in fringe cases like yours, because our pvp scene is so dead that you would inflate indefinitely from facing ridiculously easy foes. unless neople changes the system to prevent severe mismatches (where a win would net you 1 RP or less). in which case you will simply sit there for god knows how long til the other high-rank PVPers show up.
     
  3. Loujitsu Nen God

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    Thanks for the feedback. I don't really care much about the RP being inflated, because the best players and the ones who are willing to grind the most will still have the highest at the end of the day which is kind of how it is now. However, I feel these small changes would make the higher rank players more willing to enter rank, and allow them to fight a wider variety of players instead of spending 15 minutes waiting for a match. Look at it like this, if I have to get matched up with a 900 RP Kunoichi who lives in the UK and has like 400+ ping and is teleporting everywhere on the screen I feel I should at least be rewarded if I somehow manage to get the W, 2 RP isn't game breaking but it is better than 0 and not having to drop 16 RP if I do lose would make me more willing to PVP regardless of what hackers or laggers are currently in ranked. I don't feel that is too much to ask for.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  4. Sancerre

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    you know what is better? a ping filter. 120-ish is playable. 150+ is stupid and shouldnt be allowed.

    the problem wont resolve itself with a few bonus RP for winning each time. your band-aid is rewarding you for continuing to grind through the mess. you are willing to grind through the mess, others arent. you expressed it yourself, your RP is a reflection of how much time investment you put in (as well as skill and mastery) -- but what are you achieving by running in circles for 4 minutes and hoping you took less poke damage through the lag fiesta?

    im not interested in waiting 10 minutes for an unplayable match. i dont care if i get 2 RP instead of 1. the reward is not my concern. it is not fun.

    as a final note -- i would wait 5-10 minutes at high RP if i consistently get playable matches.
     
  5. Loujitsu Nen God

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    Thanks for the feedback, you brought up some great points. I love the idea of a ping filter, but I don't think it is a realistic thing to ask for from the small global team we have. Players have been complaining about the lag in PvP since the Nexon days and nothing has been done about it. However, things pertaining to EXP and RP rates have been shown they can be altered through events and other means. So why not make the PvP experience at least more bearable for anyone that decides to PvP, even if it is only a small improvement?
     
  6. Firefly

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    Even with a ping filter there simply isn't enough players close by to cycle through the pool efficiently especially with the system we have where you can't get rematched with an opponent you just fought with. Adding more rewards in game will only attract so many players, and even then they do it just to get rewards and suffer the entire way through. After those events are over they never touch pvp again. If they want long permanent stable pvping, start off by sponsoring some consistent irl tournaments or something in a net cafe/esport clubs at various places around the world (LA, NY, Vancouver, Melbourne etc.), it'll rly be up to the players to go out and contact and establish these tho. Just start small offer like a 50 dollar prize pool for monthly tournaments or some shit to raise awareness and actually get ppl to play the game cuz this game's PVP is fucking good but everyone is just so scattered around the world and ping rekts the experience. Rather use that money on rewards than to send 8 bodybags to Korea. Even if each contestant were to buy 1 package just for advanced avas they would be making bank. Hell, someone can just set up dummy accounts filled with lv85 PVP chars and use those as tournament chars. They are way too complacent if they think 2 PVP events in 2 years is enough to promote PVP. Just because PVP is extremely popular in Korea doesn't mean NA players will automatically flock to it. No one even knows what DFO is, when I tell ppl they think its the Directory of Fisheries and Oceans.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  7. SkyArt

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    While RP loss is annoying when nothing but lower ranked players are in PvP, this wouldn't be an issue if more people were in ranked. There should simply be an ping filter of 100ms, and if they don't have the ability to implement that at least make multiple servers based on geographical location so at the very least we can try to match ourselves with people who are closer.

    As pointed out above that may lower the pool of players in ranked, but more people would PvP if lag wasn't such an issue.
     
  8. RocForum Bird of Prey

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    If we get separate pvp servers everyone would just play in NA East because the other ones are dead.

    Think lou's suggestion is as good as it gets since it only affects the hardcore PvPer's. The only ones that actually pvp regularly.

    I thought we could add a daily/weekly incentive to PvP to somewhat make it more active. Play 10 matchs get 100DI/per acc/per week. Or something like that. But after some analytical thought it won't actually increase the quality of DFO pvp. Just get in, throw some matchs on a alt, claim free DI. Kinda like the last 2 pvp events. Eh, just do something nice for the ones putting up with this shit hole.
     
  9. agree on this point, there really aren't enough people to afford a ping filter, or really any matchmaking filters whatsoever. those only work when you have a sizeable player base, and pvp... well, doesn't have that.

    this isn't a jab at how masochistic pvp players in general are (i really did have some people i know react like that), this is just how it is. some other good examples: Soul Calibur V, Metal Gear Online, GTA Online (almost everything barring the best paying activities in that game has no player base)

    on a smaller scale, the guild i'm in already sort of does this with weekly-ish pvp tourneys, except with $5 or $10 CERA depending on how many people show up. the problem with this is that every tournament gets roflstomped by the same 1400~1500 RP players in our guild and everyone else slowly but surely stops coming. i've suggested before that we should hold tourneys for lower RP players, but nothing has ever come of that.

    the problem in general with pvp is that this game is pve first, pvp second. even if Neople does something ridiculous like giving away Savior weapons for playing pvp, they're going to be hated on for wasting time on dead content.

    well, the first mistake is assuming pvp was popular in kDnF to begin with...
     
  10. SkyArt

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    I think most people would rather have fewer quality matches than plenty of terrible ones. 100+ ping matches are just unacceptable, and there is no point in trying to save PvP that isn't a concern. If anything make the ping filter optional.
     
  11. i guess i'm in the minority when i'd rather have Chinese zerks than waiting in the lobby for 30 minutes
     
  12. sharzik

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    http://puu.sh/vVABF/77d3248ca6.gif
    I'm west coast. He's central. This was taken before //monitor, but judging from other players it'd be around 100 ping?

    Even before the obviousness of skills breaking and meta shifts based around latency, no matter how you work the network code that latency's gonna get taken up somewhere along the line. There exists practice to increase the precision and speed of your reactions, overspeed training. Then you've got fighting games where the latency takes the form of a visual slowdown on both sides to maintain sync'd gameplay, effectively increasing the amount of time you have to react. And then you've got games like DFO where it's kept real-time but gameplay is desync'd and possibly disguised by prediction algorithms. It's not a surprise when korean players stomp in general when they've always had a viable avenue for legitimate practice in an online game's public pool of players.

    But even in kDNF, pvp is apparently not that popular?

    If you want to build a localized pvp community or guild then go for it, it could be a lot of fun. But I think it's unlikely that Neople can do anything to address any of the problems with developing an actual scene for the global region.
     

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