Summoner General


That green Aura for whips(tainted chrons), does it effect humans or monsters as well?


testing shows it only affect player characters, green aura taint apparently does nothing for minions afaik


What’s stronger for summoners? Spirit Lord Protection or Mana Amp Staff? And by how much?

My summoner has 143 ele dmg. What is Mana Amp Staff worth?
And out of curiosity, how strong is Rabi Rod compared to an epic?
What epic can that compare to?

Mana Amp gives 18pct INT and 30 ele.


Granted I can’t back this up with hard numbers, not really the best at those in the first place plus I don’t have access to a Mana Amp Staff, but I would say that Spirit Lord Protection would be much better.

Not only does it have good stats, it also increases our buff skill, our summon buffing aura, our tier 2 summons and Echeveria, but having a 2nd Echeveria out and active is an incredibly good buff to our damage. I don’t know if it can be concretely called our best summon outside of awakenings, I don’t know exactly how Kuruta compares, but it’s still one of our most powerful ones so having 2 out and having them attack faster I would consider a lot better then the Mana Amp effects.

And as far as I can tell, for Rabi Rod it might outperform some when paired up with a Dark Gothic set, but outside of that I can’t see it being able to compete with the likes of Newlington or Spirit Lord Protection among the epics we would be farming now.


Buff skill increase goes both ways w/ swapping.


That might be true in regards to Zealous Creature, but as soon as you unequip Spirit Lord Protection you will lose the 2nd Echeveria, and possibly the extra levels to the summons as well though don’t quote me on that part.


Spirit Lord’s Protection is a good swap weapon but the 90 epics beat it. Maybe not Jubilation Horn (I haven’t tried it) but Que Sera Sera is certainly better.

I tested SLP for swapping and you do indeed lose the second Echeverria, but your first one retains the level boost and you retain the levels in Zealous.


Good to know on keeping the level up on him, though does he also keep the shorter duration I wonder? Will need to test that.

And just as a couple quick questions of my own, can anyone confirm that summons do count towards activating Que Sera with their hits? Prior to the rework I had someone say that they didn’t and you had to score the hits yourself to activate it.

Also what would be better between Que Sera, Newlington and Werry for summoner? I currently have access to Que Serra and Werry but I don’t want to waste PEs on the wrong one.


So SLProtection(for Summy) beats all 85 epics eh?


Having two spirit kings is pretty sick nasty(This is assuming you use it as a main weapon.)

So yes, imo it beats all the 85s.


How close does protection come to 90 epics other than Que?


One downside to SLP is you don’t get two hive lasers for having to Echeverrias. Having a second one is nice, but not being able to dump a second laser is kind of sad. This has been the case both before and after the reword though.

QSS seems to trigger off summon combos and not just your own. Some old Reddit thread says otherwise, but I don’t know. It’s hard to test; it doesn’t seem to proc at all in the testing room. That said, since summon hive skills proc things like Babylonian Symbol now when they didn’t before, I would assume that they proc combo-based effects as well. I don’t care enough to go test regardless; QSS is better than SLP when doing general nugol kills or whatever, so that’s good enough for me.

I’m sure Werry or Newlington would be better than QSS, and Jubilation Horn isn’t good enough to replace SLP, probably. I have a horn but I also don’t care enough to test that.

As for Echeverria’s duration when swapped with SLP, he DOES keep the shorter duration. I summoned 1 eche and swapped away from SLP, and after 95 seconds (half normal duration) it disappeared.


one thing i learn @Nighthand is newlington is good if u use DG, crow, or alot of elemental dmg

some people told me qss is like the best (they dont play summoners tho). im using a werry and it seems mehh IMO


I don’t have a Werry or Newlington to try out yet, so my information on them is assumption, primarily.

Werry has procs based on skill usage, which would trigger off summons and hive skills as well as things like Lasher and Mark. Getting 64% to attacks at max stacks is certainly good, but you really have to be spamming skills to keep it up. You have to hit 8x 40% procs on a rolling 30-second basis, which is a tall order for a class that isn’t constantly spamming a variety of skills. I know my own personal playstyle is barely enough to keep ancient civ pieces up, and they’re 60-second buffs at 20% proc rate.

Meanwhile, Newlington is just a passive giant pile of additional damage if you’re more heavily focused on one element. It’s easier to see an immediate benefit, but it seems like it would have a lower ceiling. Then again, I don’t know at what point element elenore is better than m/i attack boosts. If I ever get one of those two pieces, I’ll give 'em a test.


werry is a +64% increase to the main stat used for calculating the dmg so it get diluted though the dmg formula ontop of further dilution when partying with saders since they inflate said stats while newlington’s elemental elenore may be a giant pile of additional dmg its still is a flat dmg increase using a modifier that additionally scales off of ur elemental dmg and is generally consider on par or slightly better then an unupgraded savior with its buff on

while i may be bias to newlington i still find it pretty skeptical to believe that werry is can possible be better then newlington though werry does hav that +2 to 85 which is pretty amazing for bursting with eclipse fall


Werry is only diluted if you have more % increases. it works with sader buffs. with the removal of piercing, Werry at max stacks and no other source of %attack, is a straight 64% damage increase.

The issue is stacking it, not on its end result. Saders give you flat stats which are then scaled by werry.

If you are DG/Senses/3civ for example, a maxed stack werry should be around 51% damage increase. Newlington would most likely be similar or a bit stronger depending on other factors, But it has one huge saving grace and that is no stacking required.


somewhere down the line of though i somehow ended up placing both werry and saders buffs under the category of modifier . . . guess this is wut i get for thinking while being occupied by 2 other things at the same time

on the other hand as a summoner losing a stack does seem likely if not due to carelessness so theres also the practicality of it


Yeah summoner is prolly terrible at stacking werry unless you wanna throw pills non stop to stack it, seems a pain.


any of you guys use this? does swapping away from this make the extra murker disappear?


Yeah, since the rework any item that allows you to summon extra minions will cause you to lose them if you swap to something else.

Granted, it’s not a bad item while your still gearing up but it’s no longer the useful swap piece it used to be.