Soul Bender General


#25

I am new to Soul Bender. How does Afterimage of Keiga work? Under the skill description there are 1st-4th magical attack values. Do these values pertain to the Soul Bender’s basic attacks? If they do, what is the 4th magical attack referring to, since the Soul Bender only has 3 attacks in his basic attack string.


#26

Soul Bender gets 4 hits when they use Afterimage of Keiga, so the 1st-4th magical attack values refer to those 4 hits. However, if you use Kalla of the Dark Flame with that, you’ll only get the first 3 basic x strings of the 4.


#27

I’ve ran a couple of Lukes now and there have been times where things berserked and we couldn’t find out who held. So, I’m trying to make sure I’ve got everything straight on what counts as a hold. Phantasmal Slayer, GS: Abyss, and Sieg are all I know of. Am I missing one and accidentally triggering berserks?


#28

Yea I feel you, and yes those are the main ones but saya also counts as a hold at times, with the bosses that can actually freeze. Like nightmare nerbe and the ninja mini boss are some I don’t use saya with. If im off at all someone clarify please.


#29


I dont see why my SB is so weak… current build is about 40% weaker than my SM with the same items but with NG instead…


#30

were you expecting something else from one of the weakest classes damage-wise in dfo?


#31

I’m only missing breath and was wondering if I was doing something wrong still dealing pitiful damage, glad to see it doesn’t get better

does sb remain mixed even after all the homogenization? couldn’t find any notes saying otherwise

I’ve also noticed a lot of rework idea posts in the kdnf sb forum. the current and near-future sb certainly feels incongruous with itself and the rest of the game, and I get that reworks aren’t done lightly, but how’s neople’s stance on that right now?


#32

World Pend is better than Muramasa? Will this be true after origins as well?


#33

Aw… I thought after the rework our class became really strong :confused:
RIP, had hopes to revive the first class I ever played


#34

I have a Dark Star and Muramasa, and as far as I can tell Muramasa is the go-to for SB Dealers, but I heard Dark Star gets reworked and becomes more favorable. True or not?


#35

Anyone got any damage chart tests for best upgraded 90 set? My plan was to go full radiant to supercontinent since it was that or BF before, but I hear gespant is getting buffed pretty nicely along with all other sets.
Still quite far away from upgrading 5 PC’s, so be nice to get info before I jump ahead


#36

More big changes for us. Looks like we’re a percent class(?) and Bremen was improved.

A moment of silence for our fallen comrade. I’ll miss you, Tombstone Triangle. Even though you got a replacement.


(Credit to whoever shared that on Reddit)

Holding my breath until the final changes hit live.


#37

I wonder if we’ll be able to liberate Tombstone Swamp during skills like Triangle.


#38

Tombstone Swamp is able to be Liberated.


#39

Attack Speed or Casting Speed for SB?

EDIT: Also, how important is Hit Rate? Debating between picking up Blue Emblems for Hit Rate or for Movement Speed.


#40

I’ve personally found that attack speed is quite a bit more useful than casting speed, at least if we’re talking about emblems. Although all of your circles are cast speed based this can be circumvented by just liberating the skill (casting the circle in the middle of another one of your skill’s animations, i.e Bremen during Zieg). That’s not to say that cast speed isn’t important since some of your strongest skills are based off it like Blache and Dark Flame Sword, but I found it easier to just switch my hat and hair avatar for cast speed if I needed it.

I’ve never ran into any issues with hit rate on my SB. Perhaps if we had a weapon mastery that didn’t give us hit rate there would be some problems but since we do, I haven’t heard of any cases of lacking hit rate at least for Soul Benders. On my SB I personally use gold Movespeed blues and I haven’t regretted it.


#41

With these percent changes, how big of a difference in damage will ss be compared with katana. Aka should I get a new savior and wait to upgrade to triumph?

Also, did the hold for Blade Phantom get scrapped in the move to live?


#42

I can’t exactly answer the difference between Katana and SS damage difference (because math isn’t my forte). However the common consensus among many of the KDNF SBs is that SS finally has enough advantages on it to justify switching over from Katana. I don’t think you should wait on your monos to eventually upgrade a new Savior though. By the time we get this SB update you should have had enough time to bank up on enough monos to upgrade another savior. On the other hand, I suppose there’s the possibility that we might start getting patches at an accelerated rate though. Hard to say for certain. If you don’t mind waiting you could just start getting Heblon pieces next and then see how you feel when the time comes.

Based on the footage from this video, it seems that Blade Phantom did not retain the holding change from test server.


#43

I think I’m gonna start working towards Heblon pieces while I grind out a Short Sword. I have a World Pendulum I’m using in Gespent right now anyway.


#44

Bremen is currently bugged.

At the point in time when we first received SB reworks (some time in 2017 or something), there were rumours of a bug in cDNF where Bremen reduced party damage. Naturally, this was one of the first things I tested when the reworks hit, with the help of some friends (namely, Andras). Bremen was still defense shred at this point. I did not notice the bug on my end when I tested, and neither did Andras when he tested with a fnen friend’s Brilliant Nen skill (for a 1bil+ condition, which will be further explained below). In light of these testing results, I didn’t give the bug much more thought as it seemed like it was just a baseless rumour.

However, even when the Synergy patch came in in 2018 February (Origin), I still did not think much of the bug as it had already been proved as false. A few friends were asking me about the bug again recently though, so I decided to give it another shot with a few changes to the tests I did before, and these were the results I came up with.

Overview:
If the mainline of a single hit (damage without counting elenore lines) is 1bil or over, Bremen will reduce the damage by 215mil and not apply the 25% damage amplification. Note that, as per the previous sentence, this applies per HIT not per SKILL, so it in fact can apply multiple times per skill if you hit more than 1bil on each hit.

Replicating the bug in training room / Proof of the bug:
The easiest skill to test it with is Ghost Slash: Overdrive (Berserk). By either using training room buffs/different mob + sader or a combination of both, basically whatever gets your Berserk mainline over 1bil damage, you can test the damage of Berserk with no Bremen compared to Berserk with Bremen. The results end up something like this.


The lower of the 2 numbers on each screenshot is the damage WITH Bremen, while the higher number funnily enough is the damage WITHOUT Bremen. Notice how the damage is roughly 215mil difference no matter how high the overall damage is. There have been some discrepancies with this 215mil number (I have noted instances of different numbers), but I will need to test further to iron out where these discrepancies originate from, although I do suspect it’s to do with elenore lines; however, I am fairly certain the 215mil is the correct number that’s associated with this bug.

At first I hoped it was a training room only bug, but testing it in dungeon, the bug was apparent. This testing was done with sader, savior and swift in Anton normals. There is a minor discrepancy with some of the buffing that occurred, but the difference is very minor and therefore does not interfere with the point of the testing. The only variance was the 215mil became a slightly larger number due to slightly more buffs, but the point still stands regardless.

Bremen:

No Bremen:

Notice how my Phantasmal Slayer damage, which is well below 1bil, hits harder with Bremen than without Bremen, as it should. However, my Berserk damage hits a solid amount lower (still fairly close to the projected 215mil, the variance is accounted for by additional buffs).

Additional Notes:
Delevelling Bremen does not have an effect on the bug.
This bug only affects Bremen, not Rhasa.
This bug is not restricted to only the training room, it affects dungeon mobs as well.
This bug is also in cDnF.
This bug seems to have been “fixed” in KDNF with the recent patch that changed Bremen from being a field-type skill to an “Iron Strike” type skill (applied on hit). However, deskilling Phantom Mastery, the action of which changes Bremen back to a field-type skill, seems to reintroduce the bug, so it seems to be associated with the field-type application or similar. I am still awaiting more data on this particular topic as I do not play KDNF and therefore need to rely on the word of trustworthy friends to provide the full details I require to make a conclusion.
Additionally, there was no previous documentation of this bug in KDNF. There was no info on namu wiki about this bug, not any complaints on chosun forums or similar, as far as I am aware. However, I do suspect the bug was present in KDNF, just not noticed as SB is not a high single hit class. The bug is very hard to notice solo as you do not hit the threshold required to proc it, and in party it’s very easy to miss as well. The bug was first noticed in CDNF I believe, where the power creep there probably makes it a lot easier to notice, as their skills are more likely to hit the threshold where the bug is present.

Theory behind the bug:
As I have no concrete proof of what causes the bug outside of the damage threshold being somewhere around 1bil, I can only theorize what is the cause.

Bremen’s max registering value is 1bil. If the damage of the original skill is over this value, the data “overflows” (look up integer overflow). When it overflows, instead of increasing damage by 25%, it decreases the damage by 21.5% of the 1bil damage, which is 215mil. 21.5% is the number for every defense shred passive in the game (DT, Asura, Witch, etc.). Bremen used to be defense shred before the Synergy patch, so it’s possible there was some sort of overlooked code or value in the system that might cause a logic error or similar. Additionally, many of the “caps” in DFO, such as the visual damage cap and some item caps, are some multiple of 100 - 1 (i.e. visual damage cap is 100mil - 1), so it’s not unlikely that Bremen’s cap is 1bil - 1. Something to do with archaic code or data types that weren’t correctly changed.

Again, this part is just a theory and overall probably irrelevant as it’s not our job as players to speculate or offer neople input on their backend, but just a piece of my thoughts, I guess.

Conclusion:
I do not know when this bug was introduced, whether my testing at the start of SB reworks was incorrect, or if it was introduced during the Synergy patch or at a different point, but the fact remains that the bug exists and basically makes SB a really bad class for party play. In terms of 4-man Luke selling, this bug doesn’t really matter that much, since it’s very likely you should be able to onecycle regardless (if you’re doing enough damage for the bug to matter, you have the damage to onecycle). The real problem is pubs and statics where you are probably going to support a stronger dealer who does have the capability to hit 1bil+ on single hits.

The question is: should you just not use Bremen in those cases?

My personal opinion is that it will vary from party to party, and will greatly depend on your dealer’s gear and class. If your dealer is a class that deals strong single hits rather than multihits and/or does not have much elenore, and they’re capable of hitting 1bil+ per hit, then yes, it’s probably a better idea to not use bremen. However, for the most part I don’t think forgoing Bremen is a good idea as it still will benefit most skills, and honestly if they’re doing that much damage, losing 215mil isn’t going to be a big deal.

I’m still doing testing and gathering information on this bug, but as far as I’m concerned, this bug will not be fixed until we get the patch that KDNF has, where Bremen is changed from a field-type skill to an on-hit type skill.

Special thanks to Skype for assistance with the initial testing and theorycrafting, and Haunts for some further testing on Rhasa.