The changes to Exorcist in PvP basically kill the class

Discussion in 'PvP Discussion' started by Kyokuji, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. Kyokuji

    Posts:
    2
    (Copy from my post on the sub, but nobody on reddit seems to give a shit about PvP)

    The balance changes for Exorcist are horrible for PvP.
    • You can't use Red Phoenix Amulet in neutral without a chakra on anymore, and Red Phoenix was a huge part of your neutral game to help zone people, especially if you lean towards magic in your hybrid build. Typically, you wanted to use your chakras during combos to maximize damage rather than just blowing them during neutral. Obviously, this change was made with the new permanent chakras in mind, but they aren't permanent in PvP, so it's just a straight up nerf to Exo neutral unless you run double chakra and even then, you'll likely have to blow one chakra before you want to.

    • Piercing Darkness being instant full charge is good in theory, except for the fact that there were combos that relied on using an uncharged PD to help relaunch and buff and also reposition the enemy to be further in front, so other combos work properly (GWL xx Holy Amulet xx Rising Emblem xx uncharged PD xx buffs xx GWL). These combos no longer work with the new fully charged one unless you turn around, but then you lose the re-positioning aspect of it because they end up almost behind you, which completely screws up any kind of corner carry you're trying to do. PD's increased zoning potential doesn't make up for losing Red Phoenix either, since RPA set up traps/combos, whereas PD just pushes them away as a keepaway tool.

    • Black Tortoise not automatically grabbing is great in PvE where you want to pick a target, but it is absolutely awful for PvP where there's only one person anyway. Now you have to make the dog do it manually, so a lot of setups that required you to hit the enemy while the dog grabs are incredibly awkward or impossible to do now. Plus, a lot of people have BT on a command, so that means you have to awkwardly do the command twice. You can't even do it right away because you have to wait for the dog to spawn before it'll accept a second command.

    • The new Star in the Sky is awesome in PvE, and absolutely fucking garbage in PvP. Enemies land so fast from it now, that you get literally almost no time for follow-up (even if you use Up variation), so it's no longer useful as a combo starter unless you're right up against the corner, and even then, you'll only likely have time for an OTG setup instead of another juggle.
    Basically, they made a bunch of skill changes that are good QoL buffs for PvE, but completely and utterly screw up everything in PvP. It's like they didn't bother to stop and think about how they would affect PvP at all.

    These are like catastrophically bad changes. We're not talking a slight change in playstyle here. We're talking entire setups, starters and combos ruined + damage output drastically lowered with almost nothing gained.

    To re-cap Dog combos will now do significantly reduced damage and are much much harder to set up due to the manual grab (can't be inputted until after the dog spawns and not while doing anything else, killing a lot of existing setups and forcing you to find less optimal new ones), neutral is weaker due to lack of RPA unless you run double chakra, and starting combos is harder since warp grab into SitS no longer sets up juggles/dog grabs. Warp grab xx SitS was pretty much their only reliable, non-telegraphed/easily SA counterable combo starter besides rising emblem if the enemy was below you.

    Exos were considered solid mid tier by the Koreans before, but I can't see them being anything besides low tier after this. There aren't that many Exos in PvP either, so I'm afraid that the community will basically just shrug and go, "Oh well. I don't really care anyway", and this'll never get changed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  2. Nier FPriest main since 2017

    Posts:
    1,865
    The way the new tortoise grab works is (at least in PvE)
    1. You have to be facing the enemy
    2. They're not in invulnerable or in iframe state.

    Not sure if that how it works pvp but that's at least the new conditions for tortoise to grab something.

    I don't PvP as much nowadays but I do agree these changes kinda sucks as it changes your BnB combo timings.
     
  3. Kyokuji

    Posts:
    2
    It doesn't just change the timings. I could get past that if that was the case. Some combos literally don't work anymore or are significantly less rewarding because of the changes to skills, and it's not like they gave them anything else to really compensate.

    A lot of dog setups relied on you using Holy Amulet/GWL/smasher WHILE the dog grabs, so that the enemy is kept in hitstun and isn't able to just get up off the ground. These are super awkward to do now -- if not straight up impossible in some situations.

    Plus, some setups relied on SitS' long air time from mid-screen, which is no longer available, so that's a bunch of setups gone.

    It's more just how unnecessary all these changes are. They're straight up nerfs for a class that nobody thought was overpowered. They also have some of the lowest representation in PvP to begin with, especially in Global where most people serious players play top tiers like WM or Rangers or characters that are easier to pick up like Launchers/Zerks. The worst part is that I don't even think they were intended nerfs. The devs just don't care about PvP and didn't bother to understand how positive PvE changes can become negative in PvP.

    It's like PvP gets all the downsides to the PvE changes without any of the positives.
    • We get the skill changes that require chakras, but don't get the new permanent mana drain chakras.
    • PvE gets cast speed on Plate and armor on Cloth, but PvP doesn't
    • PvE benefits from the new faster animations, whereas they hurt combo ability in PvP
    • PvE gets to convert all skills to physical or magic, PvP doesn't
    • Manual dog grab has literally no benefit in PvP and just makes things more difficult for no reason
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

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