So what if

Discussion in 'Rogue' started by Masaki, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. Masaki ( ̿╭╮ ̿)

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    For Rogue 2nd awakening patch, Neople made Silver Stream a permanent passive upon class change. They can remove the Hit End buff and tie it to another separate skill. Alternatively they can turn it into another seperate passive (possibly a 2nd awakening passive)

    Numbers and such would be adjusted accordingly of course

    Wow I just fixed about 70% of Rogue's issues right there while making the class about 50% more fun.
     
  2. momochuu smarmy ass bitch

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    tbh shadow dancer should have been rogue second awakening lol
     
  3. Dice Dragon Unofficial Sader main

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    I was like "man what if rogue could cancel out of grabs like dk, and follow up on their own set up?"

    and someone wasl ike "SD can already do that"

    SD and Rogue have to much overlap, Id love to see the rogues grabs go to the can, And have them become a pure damage type wm class, that has tons of moves that allow them to just spam damage ontop of something, keep the mobility.

    SA would become "Barrage" or whatever kinda trashy skill name, And rogue would Use the speed of her blades to create wind, or any other kind of generic aoe reach skill, in front of her, small aoe, keeping the theme of the large single target damage.

    Excel would become a super mega bandit cut, Dual blades get to charge it, Daggers get to add second and third hits to it with more button pushes, Allow more big "Fuck you" damage. Rogue single target damage currently isnt that bad if you really think about it, But thats assuming the target can be grabbed. Ungrabbable enemies absolutely TRASH your damage. So the grabs need to go.

    Now take it with a grain of salt, I dont play a rogue, I just talk to many of them in guild.
    LA is like a grab too right? I think it should become a mega hold like wm awakening.
     
  4. Veiss-Vorra Battle Maniac

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    But i like my grabs with rogue =(
     
  5. Dice Dragon Unofficial Sader main

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    Ever done c3 on a rogue?
     
  6. Veiss-Vorra Battle Maniac

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    Not to familiar with what C3 is sadly.
     
  7. Dice Dragon Unofficial Sader main

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    Rogues are diffrent then other classes that have grab cannons, The grapplers end up doing more damage with grab cannons, Aka against ungrabbable enemies. But have less hold, its a trade off, its whatever.

    Rogue is for some reason, Less hold AND less damage. So you lose like 30% of the only damage you have if the enemy is ungrabbable. Like SA does MEGA DAMAGE even I can see my rogue buddies do work on grabbable enemies. But as soon as you cant grab it, your damage is gone to never return.

    Plus, Shadow dancer has better grabs that you dont have to stand and do. Because its rogue 2.0, Rogue needs to lose utility in its grabs, and just get straight damage to rework its theme. Right now SD/Rogue theme is so closely related that they will always be over shadowed, or over shadow the other, they are just to much the same with little diffrence/trade off.

    Like I said, dont have a rogue, this is just what I see from partying with many rogues over the past 3 years or so.
     
  8. Veiss-Vorra Battle Maniac

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    Ahh alright, now i'm understand what you're saying. Your friends are right. Grab damage is so bad on ungrabbable enemies. I remember grabbing the seal dragon with excel strike + Contact and doing basically half of my hurricane's damage.

    Shadow Dancers have tons of moves I saw where they just seem like they are exactly as you say; better rogues. I actually wonder what they will do to make rogue atleast somewhat competent, cause it seems like all the good stuff they should get, is going to their newer subclass.

    I'll still stick to rogue as long as i can though, since i actually enjoy inputting all the commands to do stuff, which i never did at all back in my NA DFO days as a Bender.
     
  9. Necrofancy Blame Blob™

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    Would it really be a problem to have all the Rogue grabs be ultimate grabs? They're basically in the same general role as Weapon Master as well as Shadow Dancer, but Rogue's not even half as good at any aspect compared to those classes.
     
  10. Masaki ( ̿╭╮ ̿)

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    Sadly, Rogues will likely never see significant buffs due to their (lack of) popularity and possibly the still lingering backlash from their release state

    Only popular classes get stuff like 15% extra crit damage and a 40% average damage boost across the board :tinfoil:
     
  11. Dubin carried by fmage

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    And then Kunoichi does that like 45s True Vilmark jaunt or something
    That effortless it doesn't even deserve to be called "run", more like...
    Dancing Queen
     
  12. Necrofancy Blame Blob™

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    Maybe Knight will take up the reigns of hated backlash class now that Thief is getting a complete array of subclasses. :V
     
  13. momochuu smarmy ass bitch

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    the kunoichi run is actually 27s :9:
     
  14. Nier FPriest main since 2017

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    2nd awakening last hope. If it doesn't fix the weaknesses the both rogues and necros currently have then truly ded.

    m.mech and witch 2nd awakening is the perfect example of how to cover those weakness properly.
     
  15. Grabs are one of the main reasons to play rogues, and rogues have grab cannons so that we do the same damage on ungrabbables as grabbables. I generally prefer fighting ungrabbable monsters.

    EDIT: our grab cannons don't actually do less damage AFAIK... not sure where you got that from
     
  16. momochuu smarmy ass bitch

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    rogue grab cannons are actually pretty terrible
     
  17. Dice Dragon Unofficial Sader main

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    They do without a doubt, ask any other rogue.

    [​IMG]

    13279% total damage if you can grab it. if you cant? 10754%, Thats 23% more total damage on grabbed enemies.

    [​IMG]

    I dont even know how much after image adds, but ungrabbles not counting after image, are still missing out on 11% damage, and its prolly way more.

    [​IMG]

    5513% against grabbed, vs 4962% ungrabbable 11% diffrence.

    That means against an ungrabble boss, your cubes just tanked 20-30% of your total damage away, all because its ungrabble, So even if you buff the numbers, that factor alone limits you Heavily.
     
  18. Syrion

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    The numbers are significantly lower but in terms of DPS the grab cannons aren't necessarily worse since the durations are much shorter (mostly for SA and LA)
    Obviously there's other cons like less holding/iframes, there's a good amount of times when the grab cannons are straight up better than the normal grabs
     
  19. Give her 7 CP with ludicrous gains on the last two.
    Or fewer
    Or permanent 6
    I don't know.
     
  20. Actually in this case, the grab cannon does a bit more damage.

    In the other cases, it does a bit less, but because sonic assault has a long animation, it actually increases dps by a lot to have the grab cannon rather than the full grab. And lightning arrow provides much more utility if you get the grab cannon (faster, doesn't put monster otg, doesn't leave you as vulnerable, pushes other monsters away from grab target). In fact, there's a chronicle item that changes lightning arrow by making it only do the grab cannon with reduced damage and lower cooldown, because it's that good.
     

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