Kunoichi General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Kunoichi' started by Brandon, Mar 2, 2015.

  1. Aethersteel IGN: Aethersteel(Ninpo) Guild: NewWorld/Kawaii

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    Everyone knows Chaos is retarded broke. Better yet both those classes can raid in halidoms which is hardly fair to any other class. If you are fighting for a spot as a magic dealer in raid the top would be chaos ele summoner and kuno, excluding popularity. I mean if you are so sceptic about kunos damage in comparison to other classes where would you tier kunos in the magic damage catergory? As low as mmech or fmech damage. Especially in this meta favoring burst > dps. You are also comparing a state where kunos are weaker than a equally geared fnen where as before that wasnt so much the case. When you say your sceptical about kuno dmg according to your current setup, the power gap between blazing vanquisher and explosive shadows is very huge. When everyone saw that weapon only video of kuno im pretty sure that part of it was having a high shadow clone level, tagged along with the bonus dmg off the weapon. Taints also scale way better with explosive shadows vs vanquisher. With vanquisher to be optimized you have to utilize a various fire setup for building as much fire dmg as possible to combine with the 12% fire additional. With Explosive shadow you could hit cap fairly well to the point where getting more dmg b/c you cant get more levels is way more beneficial than having a low level for the taints to scale off of. There really isnt a comparison bwtween kunos dmg if one person has shadows and the other vanquisher (unless its something like tog).
     
  2. Vivacious

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    [​IMG]


    I was able to do this quickly during lunch break. I just pop a raid pot and nothing else. Didn't bother optimizing stuff to the maximum potential. Although I can't optimize 100% since I don't have lvl 85 epics & my clones can't regenerate fast enough for me to do crazy stuff.

    I don't want people to know who I am in game in case I accidentally shit post in these forum.

    EDIT: this is a nugol test by the way
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  3. Ashye

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    IGN:
    Ashye
    That damage is pretty good, but I still don't see it being able to 1 cycle raid Egene with just a (2400 spirit, assumed to have a weak Apoc setting) sader. My Ele is DG/Bulky/Watch and does 9s Nugol and has issues one-shotting raid Egene, for comparison. These are all solo-dps situations, in case there was any confusion.

    A couple questions about the Nugol:
    I'm assuming thats no training room buffs (I've had people post videos with buffs and not say anything, so just making sure here).
    Is this with pre-loaded CoE?
    How did this take 31 seconds with only 1 Snake/Bird? By the 25 second mark they should be coming off CD.
    What Fire epics specifically? The only real "fire epics" are Flame Drop/SubVolcBelt.

    Your damage is double any other Kuno I've seen so far, so I'm just trying to make sure all the info is there. Good to see that there are more Kunos running around at least.

    It's hard for me to place Kuno in the tierlist currently since I haven't seen a fully geared Kuno on DFOG yet. They seem a significant step below Chaos/Summoner, since you can't raid with just Halidoms on Kuno. Grouping them with Chaos/Summoner seems to be a bit of a stretch, though Kuno is definitely still strong.

    Tainted doesn't scale any better from a % perspective with Blazing Vanq than Explosive Shadows. Blazing gives me some ~27% elenore which is quite close to Explosive Shadow's bonus to Clones, and I have a different Smash mod to make up that difference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  4. Madao

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    105
    That's pretty good Viv. I only get about 1:10 with my chron/legendary setup. Probably would be like 45s if I had more damage since we're so dependant on COE, heh. +12 Blazing, Magical attack sub, unique firestone, anton neck, king's ruin bracelet, elven ring, GT pants, tainted chest/shoulders/boots/belt. +3 title, +2 plat. Overall +7 to shadow clone. Pvp top would add some damage, probably like a 3-5% boost over using a 5% damage chron. I'd actually lose damage going from a matk sub to a +1 shadow clone sub I think, although my clone count/charge speed would go up.

    I'm actually estimating my Nugol time won't change much after the patch since he's nearly dead after the second COE, but I end up having to use a third. Still a pretty significant nerf, though.

    Do the fire legendaries make that big of a difference? I've never had a chance to play in a sader party in raids so I've never gotten a chance to see how much I do to egene buffed :v My current plan is to just keep farming for anton accessory set.
     
  5. Vivacious

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    This is without training room buff. What do you mean by pre-loaded CoE? If you mean if I load my CoE with skills before I start nugol, then no. The only thing I did before nugol time start is my 2nd awakening since I pet swap out of that. I also swap crimson flare title, as you can see in the item bar, during each recast. Although this will be almost useless this Tuesday and later patch.

    I couldn't do another CoE cycle because I was doing "optimal" stuff if I have explosive shadow. I was using all my clones for multi illusion/etc. By the time snake/bird comes off cool down, I won't have 6 clones to cast full CoE cycle.

    I don't use any war cry potion because I'm a cheap/poor as hell. The only consumable I used was the raid pot and maybe undiluted intelligence potion, I think. There are more kuno in DFOG than you think. Most of them stick to farming natram and power station for money. I occasionally see some full epics kuno running around that I've never seen before.

    Edit: @Madao; I would definitely replace the atk sub for +1 shadow clone if you don't have explosive shadow (lvl 85 epic). This allows you to abuse clone explosion & clone damage for multiple skills until next CoE cycle. Then again, it takes a bit of practice and remodeling your current playstyle to abuse all of the clones available and clone management for the next CoE cycle.
     
  6. Ashye

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    Ashye
    Alright. Need to go back to training room today and check out my damage again since I haven't done that in a while, but this seems quite high overall. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? :mystery:
     
  7. Vivacious

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    103
    I didn't pop every pot possible, so the time might be lower if I actually spend time in the dojo. I never bother to do nugol testing because it's irrelevant in a real dungeon.

    One greatest misconception out there is people casting multi illusion in the air instead of on the ground. Multi illusion deals boat load of damage. It's so good that it's always within the top 3 damage chart along with snake/bird. Sometimes it even out damages it because of how often I can cast it (manual along with blue taint multi illusion). Also make sure you normal attack after your CoE cycle to maximize bird damage or else snake will always be top DPS.

    Another big tip is that Kuno's final normal attack has HUGE frame recovery. To prevent this, you can cancel RIGHT when the last attack comes out with kunai/flame cut/ankle cut/shadow cut/eraser then the next normal attack will initiate immediately. I made all of the info about kuno like 4-6 pages back about kuno stuff. It might help you out, although some of those stuff are out dated since I completely change my skill rotation now.

    There are so many things you have to do to optimize your CoE (i.e. casting flame tornado at correct position to maximize spiral/multi illusion/snake damage)
     
  8. Aethersteel IGN: Aethersteel(Ninpo) Guild: NewWorld/Kawaii

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    It seems like u put tp into multi to get that dmg but that dmg is fairly nice. One a side note epic wont really increase your recharge speed on levels will as you already have explosive shadows. Thx for the frame cancel tips though as i was trying to find ways to make basic strings faster for better cd down time.
     
  9. mMarikom I actually never know what I'm doing

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    We discussed this months ago but would you mind reviewing any nuances and stuff you use for getting the most out of CoE and clones in both single target and mob situations?
     
  10. Aethersteel IGN: Aethersteel(Ninpo) Guild: NewWorld/Kawaii

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    Think the stuff u put into CoE is mostly preference/situational but 1 thing i think would be getting the most out of COE and should be practically mandatory is always recording snake and bird as those are the strongest skills in kuno kit. Even if its not single target COE with bird and snake AoE are so huge that they can clear rooms extremely fast.
    Optimistic bright side to kuno patch - At least bird and snake didnt get hit like every other skill down the list for kunos :V
     
  11. Madao

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    105
    So the latest patch is a 15-20% nerf in damage - depends on how much Shadow Clone you have stacked already. I was wondering how we will recover after it with the next big balance patch.

    After mathing it out, considering the latest nerf a 15% loss in damage, the next big balance patch with 30% more mob hp (unless that's not a thing?) a 23% loss in damage (1/1.3) which most classes get buffs to counter, including Kuno, 60% more non COE damage, and our buff being swappable being a ~14% (1.63 max level / 1.43 master level ) increase in damage...

    .85 * .77 * 1.6 * 1.14 = 119% non COE damage
    .85 * .77 * 1.14 = 75% COE damage

    COE chain ((119% + 75%)/2) = 97% comes down to about a 3% damage nerf, then. If you include tainted Crimson Flare pieces in your swap maybe it negates the nerf entirely? Plus our non COE stuff will be stronger. So look forward to the next balance patch, unless I fucked up my math, which is half the reason I posted this to check.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  12. Vivacious

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    103
    It's way more than just 15-20% nerf.

    For example: You were always indirectly stacking crimson flare. As a result, it was at least +2 from pet/sea god bottom (8-10% lost right there already) not including the amount of fire damage you're losing. You're also losing damage from magic defense shred. Overall, WAY more than just 15-20% nerf. The numbers you see from patch notes are not always what it seems. Gotta calculate all the indirect nerf + direct nerf.
     
  13. M1nu$p0l

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    Hi, after the nerfs , which ov set should we go for ? I assume tainted clone reds aren't optimal anymore.
     
  14. Ashye

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    IGN:
    Ashye
    Nothing in terms of gearing has really changed. OV sets are still pretty weak without their associated Epic weapon. Tainted chrons are still fairly strong.

    My time dropped from 50s to 1:10 now, basically one additional cycle to kill Nugol.
     
  15. Wing

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    Anyone still play this class? :dance:

    If so, would About +10-12 shadow clone, leg weapon, selist, the rest tainted ov be enough to run Normal Anton now? Or would you at least have to get +fire dmg acc's?
     
  16. mMarikom I actually never know what I'm doing

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    ^ Same question since I'm currently poverty tier Kuno and trying to figure out what I need to do things. A second question is what is a good second skill to focus on for the second taint for complete auras (they seem to be dropping like candy since revamp). Thanks.
     
  17. Not qualified to give a proper answer to Wing's question.

    Ashye (I believe) typed a nice list of stuff to get on reddit already: https://www.reddit.com/r/DFO/comments/5ef43l/lost_with_kunoichi_need_some_help_with_end_game/
     
  18. mMarikom I actually never know what I'm doing

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    Really appreciate it that list is perfect.
     
  19. Aethersteel IGN: Aethersteel(Ninpo) Guild: NewWorld/Kawaii

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  20. Madao

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    105
    Something I'm ashamed to not have noticed until now after watching some more recent kr vids: flying shuriken and spiral flame shuriken inflict the highest level of assassination, so using them before or sometime near the beginning of your COE chain will increase damage by a good amount. Yeah, snake upgrades assassination to level 3 as well, but it takes a little bit until it kicks in (when the fog comes out), but you can apply it pretty instantly by just using flying shuriken in the air.

    Level 3 from flying shuriken seems to last long enough into snake's assassination refresh that you don't need to mash x to keep up assassination, although its still a good idea anyways to keep up jade stacks.

    Also, I've nearly finished gigapres on this chara, but I never realized until now you could bait egene by just double jumping above him. :v So jumping above him, dropping flying shuriken to inflict max assassination, then COE chain is legit as heck.

    Shadow clones can't inflict assassination, though, so you need to not shadow clone cancel them. (although if you shadow clone cancel spiral flame, the second throw should inflict, but that takes way too long)
     

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