Get it straight: Damage modifiers, the guide, season 3

Discussion in 'Guides & Game Mechanics' started by Loriciferica, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. (2017 01 20) As of Season 3 this guide is outdated. Over the next few days I will add the new modifiers (all attack, bonus crit damage), give skill damage its own section, and upload the renewed modifier descriptions.

    (2017 02 09) The guide has been renewed


    Round 2!

    We're gonna look at three types of damage modifiers: unstackable modifiers, additive modifiers, and multiplicative modifiers.

    1. Unstackable

    You can only have ONE instance of EACH unstackable modifier. Currently there are two unstackable modifiers; Smash and Crit Damage.

    This gives them an odd reputation of being both desirable and undesirable. Ideally you want one strong %age for each, but this is contextual on the strength of your remaining slots.

    Smash modifiers look like Lord of Ranger, Byeollungum, or Refined Chaos Stone Necklace.

    Crit Damage modifiers look like Masamune, or Blade Ring


    2. Additive

    All additive modifiers work the same way; all sources of the modifier are added together, then multiplied with your other modifiers. This means you can have multiple sources of the same modifier, though each will be slightly less efficient than the last.




    3. Multiplicative

    Multiplicative damage modifiers stack multiplicatively, meaning they don't lose efficiency with additional sources. The only multiplicative modifier


    1. Smash modifiers look like Lord of Ranger, Byeollungum, or Refined Chaos Stone Necklace. There are many more besides, and all should have this description:

    "*Multiple +% damage bonus does not stack. Only the highest bonus applies. (Not applicable to Critical Damage)"

    This means that only your highest Smash multiplier at any given time will apply. What the part in brackets means is that your Smash modifiers do NOT conflict with your Crit Damage modifiers.

    Smash is a direct increase in damage. This will apply to critical hits too.

    Example: You're an Omniblade wearing Night Shadow Top and have Balmung equipped, but are using all 12 quick slots. Your Smash modifier is 18%.
    Same as previous, but you're using 0 quick slots. Your Smash modifier is 60%.

    Example 2: You're a Monk with Refined Chaos Stone Necklace and Refined Destructive Magic Stone Bracelet, and you're currently Confused (and almost always will be). Your Smash modifier is 20%. (That's right, they're part of the same set and the bracelet is redundant. Hurry up and find that third piece)


    2. Crit Damage modifiers look like Masamune, or Blade Ring. There are a couple others besides, and all should have this description:

    "*Multiple Critical Bonus does not stack. Only the highest value of bonus applies. (Only applicable to Critical Damage)"

    This means that only your highest Crit Damage multiplier will apply. Same deal as with multiple Smash modifiers, multiple Crit Damage multipliers don't stack, and you'll only apply the current highest modifier.

    What the part in brackets means is that your Crit Damage modifiers only compete among themselves.

    Crit Damage multiplies the final result of a critical hit, so it is a direct increase in damage. This is on top of the default damage from a critical hit and increased crit damage from skills like Death By Revolver, Assassin's Attitude, Sentiment Du Fer Critical etc.

    Examples: You have Masamune in hand and also have a Red Fang Bottom. Your Crit Damage modifier is 30%.
    You have Red Fang Bottom and Assassin's Blade Ring. While the enemy has >70% HP, your Crit Damage modifier is 15%. While the enemy has 20-70% HP, your Crit Damage modifier is 20%, and while the enemy has <20% HP, your Crit Damage modifier is 30%.

    Examples with Smash and Crit Damage: You have Resplendent Goddess Silver Knife (with 0 quickslots) and Red Fang Bottom. You get 60% smash and 15% Crit damage.
    You have Masamune, Magical Contract Shoulder, and Executioner's Butchery Necklace. You will have 30% Crit Damage, and between 15 and 22% Smash damage.

    Additional Damage/Deathblow looks like Liberation Weapons, Dethroned King's Tears, Incomplete Infinity Piercing, or as a set effect like on Wesley's Tactical and Mana Vortex. There are many other effects that grant Additional Damage, and there is no description that accompanies them. The most straightforward way to figure out if its additional damage is to attack an enemy; you will see one additional line below your main damage line for every source of additional damage you have. There is no limit to how many sources of Additional Damage you can have.

    Be careful when reading the item descriptions, since Neople refers to Attack Damage for both Smash AND Additional Damage modifiers

    Additional Elemental Damage looks like Rabineta's Black Heart Rod, or Dark Gothic set effect. The difference between this type and the normal kind is that an element is specified. Additional Elemental Damage will scale off your elemental damage, once again. High elemental damage combined with additional elemental damage can get out of hand very quickly.

    Examples: You have Flame Katana Caravella (35% Fire Damage on proc) and 110 fire damage. Your fire damage proc will deal an additional ~42.5% fire damage instead.
    You have the Dark Gothic set (10% additional Shadow) and have 398 shadow damage. You will deal an additional ~29% shadow damage instead.
    You have the Dark Gothic set (10% additional Shadow) and Rabineta's Black Heart Rod (20% additional Shadow) and have 440 Shadow damage. You will deal an additional ~30% shadow AND an additional ~60% shadow.

    Other details

    I'm not afraid. Show me everything!


    I saw my additional damage crit!

    Additional damage has the default rate to crit (3%) and the default crit damage (150%). It also benefits from counterattacking, and maybe other things.

    Does my piercing attack scale off any of these?

    Yes. It's incorporated into your original damage, which is what your Smash and Crit damage multiply off of, and which your Additional Damage scales off of.

    Becky/Petite pet?

    Counts as a crit damage modifier even though it doesn't say so. Still good since a lot of end-game setups won't have Crit Damage on your main items.

    +% Skill damage?

    Its another multiplier. So if you had 20% more moving shot damage, your damage during moving shot increases, by 20%.

    Skill damage multipliers are always multiplicative, even on the same skill. So if you had precise fire 9 piece (20% moving shot damage, and 20% moving shot damage) you would see not a 40% increase in damage, but a 44% increase.

    I did some testing, and <item's> damage modifier is actually <other damage modifier>, in spite of its description/disclaimer!

    Neople's translations and even their own in-game mechanics are horribly inconsistent.

    Someone said DBR affects Natural Guardian. What about Smash/Crit Damage?

    Nope. Smash, crit damage, and additional damage don't apply on Natural Guardian procs.

     
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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  2. Stylish

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    Good post! It might be helpful to add something about interactions between Refined Chaos Necklace and Refined Destructive Magic Stone Bracelet since they're part of the same set but strangely enough are both Smash effect.
     
  3. Good idea, I think I've seen that grievance once or twice
     
  4. Psycho K Keeper of Territory

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    I feel it's worthwhile to say that "Smash" damage is described as "attack damage" in game. Even on magic-sealed gear with the option, it says attack damage there too. You should also note that a lot of things in the game with that label are actually additional damage (e.g., Invisible Sword Arges, the level 85 Wooyo series). Many seem to be in the habit of calling these two Smash and Elenore/Deathblow. It's fine if you want to, but I feel going with attack damage + additional damage or Smash + Deathblow would be more consistent than Smash + additional damage :s:.

    Ice Spark Bowgun is not additional elemental damage. I thought it was too due to the wording, but it isn't. It's a really strange weapon that is effectively "inflict 15% additional damage" listed twice. Even on non-fire or water skills like Quantum Bomb and Extruder, both lines of damage will appear (though, like with every attack, a "basic attack" has to be used in the room at least once for the option to activate). I shot many Extruders in the training center and both lines are usually 15% of the damage despite having 100+ fire damage and 69 water damage. Sometimes, the additional damage values are 2% lower or higher (with the high roll being rarest), but I guess that doesn't need to be mentioned.


    P = Percentage damage skill value
    W = All sources of physical/magical weapon attack (weapon, sub-equip, enchants, passives, etc.)
    F = Fixed damage skill value
    I = Independent attack
    S = Strength/intelligence
    D = Target's defense percentage
    A = Elemental attack
    R = Target's elemental resistance
    X = Piercing attack
    Y = Target's piercing damage mitigation
    B = Non-skill damage buff*
    M = Attack damage modifier
    C = Critical damage
    L = Additional (elemental) damage

    *E.g., Warrior's/Warlord's Cry Potion, Salaime/Endarion creature. These two, for example, will stack additively giving a hefty 27% (15+12) increase to all damage including independent summons (e.g., Land Runner) and Natural Guardian procs. I believe some interactions in this category do not stack, but I don't remember the details if that is the case.

    Damage = (PW + FI) * (1+S/250) * (1-D) * (1+(A-R)/222) + PX(1-Y)
    Modified damage = Damage * (1+B) * (1+M)
    Critical damage = Modified damage * 1.5(1+C)
    Each line of additional damage = critical or modified damage * L
    Each line of additional elemental damage = critical or modified damage * L(1+(A-R)/222)

    I made several corrections and additions. Piercing damage is unaffected by the elemental modifier. Target defense and resistance were added. My format leaves skill damage out since it's difficult to miss due to the skill values themselves usually changing when you have gear like that on. It would be just *(1+<modifier>) as usual though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  5. :doh:. thanks for the save, imma quote you instead

    Smash and Additional/Elenore have been floating around a lot. I'll make an effort to spread the word though
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  6. AliasZ

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    So additional ele damage scales quadratically with your elemental damage? That's pretty damn broken lol
     
  7. Psycho K Keeper of Territory

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    0 elemental damage, 0 target resistance, 10% additional, 10% additional elemental
    A) 132 = 120+12 = 100 non-piercing + 20 piercing + 12 additional (elemental)

    111 elemental damage, same other conditions
    B) 187.00 = 150 non-piercing + 20 piercing + 17.0 additional
    C) 195.50 = 150 non-piercing + 20 piercing + 25.5 additional elemental

    222 elemental damage
    D) 242.00 = 200 non-piercing + 20 piercing + 22.0 additional
    E) 264.00 = 200 non-piercing + 20 piercing + 44.0 additional elemental

    That's really simplified and assumes percentage damage is being dealt, but it shows the idea.
     
  8. boosted180sx Young blood

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    Your right it doesn't get affected by smash, crit dmg modifiers from gear but you need to make the post a little more clear.

    The dmg for the procs are as follows:
    Top - 2100% light dmg + 525k fixed (1 Hit)
    Bottom - 2100% fire dmg + 525k fixed (1 Hit)
    Shoulder - 900% shadow dmg + 117k fixed (5 Hits)
    Belt - 900% + 108k fixed dmg (7 Hits)
    Shoe - 900% neutral element + 126k fixed ( 3 hits) (% part of the shoes can be changed to a diff element by flasks/weapon enchants)

    Now with that said, there are a few things that affect the dmg of the procs.

    The percent part of the procs are affected by:
    • Strength, physical attack, elemental dmg, piercing
    • Enemy Def
    • Warrior Pot, +Crit dmg from skills (DBR, etc)
    The fixed part of the procs are affected by:
    • Warrior Pot, + Crit dmg from skills (DBR, etc)
    The total dmg is affected by PHYSICAL crit chance.
     
  9. GhostlyCrow

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    Is the additional damage tic affected by +attack damage/smash?

    228 fire damage with sacred fire and pumpkin broom and pyromancer cropped.jpg
    10,352,614*.20 (pumpkin broom) = 2,070,522.8, but that * 1.20 from Pyromancer's Torture Bracelet = 2,484,627.36, the exact number that shows up.

    Similarly my additional fire hit from Sacred Fire (5% additional fire damage, fire damage stat is 228) should be:
    10,352,614*.05*(1+[(228)/220]) = 1,054,084, but that * 1.20 from Pyromancer = 1,264,900 which is... closer to what shows up on screen, which is interestingly almost exactly half the Pumpkin Broom tic.
     
  10. madchickins Flesh

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    The additional elemental from sacred fire is 10,352,614 x 1.2 / 10 = 1,242,313
    Assume it takes your original damage, throw in smash multiplier to it (pyromancer), then the co-efficient of sacred fire (5%) is practically doubled because 222 fire = 100% damage increase therefore being 10%. (well 228 fire = 10.9% but gg game rounds down as usual)
    Hope this makes sense
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  11. Additional damage is a hit that is a % of your 1st hit. This will cause it to indirectly benefit from smash, crit damage, and elemental damage, but it will not be multiplied again (except for additional elemental damage)

    This is either a special interaction with conditional smash mods based on the enemy's status, or your attack was a Counter, causing the target to receive 20% more damage from all hits (including additional damage). I dissed my pyro some time back so I won't be able to test this.

    If you can, experiment with your setup and record the results of various configurations, skills, and whether the enemy was burned/immobilized or not. Also make sure that whatever you're doing won't be a Counter
     
  12. boosted180sx Young blood

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    your basically saying the same thing he said. which is why he asked if smash modifiers work on additional dmg.

    To answer your question, no it doesn't.
    pyromancer is a special case because in current dfog it's bugged to where the smash modifier of that is affecting the additional dmg and not just the main dmg.

    It is fixed in kdnf however so it's just a matter of time until dfog gets the fix.
     
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  13. Erufuun

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    Does smash or elenore have any effect on status effects like poison or bleed?
     
  14. boosted180sx Young blood

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  15. Apple Yawning

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    Are you sure about elenore? been using a mana mithril bar on fbrawler and I get an extra line for each poison tick
    Edit: Infact let me check ingame to make sure I am not mis remembering
     
  16. boosted180sx Young blood

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    yes i'm sure. that line is probably your overstrain passive giving abnormal status dmg a crit chance to do 20% elenore tick for that status dmg
     
  17. Apple Yawning

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    Yah you are correct was getting myself confused there
     
  18. KingAmon

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    Sorry if someone already asked, but is the Resh set effect smash?
     
  19. Reshpon set has no damage modifiers at all.
     
  20. KingAmon

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    I said resh, I meant vilmark, sorry.
     

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