Enchanted Swing result and Gigantic Presence 3pc theory

Discussion in 'Battlemage' started by RoXXX, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. RoXXX


    Battlemogs are generally advised to stack water damage so they can use the magic defence debuff from enchanted swing, but it turns out you can actually use any element and keep the magic defence debuff, as long as you are prepared to use evolution chaser whenever you want to use the debuff.
    This is because all non-neutral chasers inherit the elemental damage type you inflict from weapon(and I assume cube contract), but enchanted swing with an evolved chaser inherits the debuff from the type you select when activating evolution chaser. Note that evo chaser inherits damage value from the the type you select not the element you deal, so you still have to max water chaser, but that is the only cost of the debuff in any situation where you would want to be using evolution chaser anyway. Personally, I want to use Evo chaser almost always and against almost all bosses, and only want to use magic debuff against bosses, so I don't see much conflict.
    Can't really neglect to mention the situation where 1 target is dead and jugglable, soaking up all the Evo Chasers and reducing your damage on the boss by 66%, but normal chasers deal less damage, knock them out of the punto, make it much harder to keep buffs up and limit your initiation based on your selected element (you cannot stabbing wheel -> punto with regular chasers if you don't stack shadow or all element...) so its a two way street.
    Reproduce: - Equip fire weapon, - Evo chaser:water, - Spawn Tog(fire), observe that your 'water' evo chasers still damage the tog because they are dealing fire damage. - Spawn Nugol, - Set conversion to magical, - Use fully charged palm blast, - Use enchanted swing with a fire-dealing evolution-water-chaser - Use fully charged palm blast and observe damage increase. (Can't test def debuff on tog cos his defence is weird)


    Decided to remove this horribly long unformatted post to spare anyone reading it because it definitely isn't true, and to save what face I can after getting so wrapped up in it :D (although, in my defence, it wouldn't have had to double dip on smash :P)
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  2. RoXXX

    edit removed
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  3. epiphenom

    This is an interesting theory, which seems to boil down to your contention that the +10% skill damage stacks multiplicatively whenever a number needs to get passed from one skill to another during a damage calculation. I don't have empirical evidence to say it doesn't work this way, but my suspicion is that your hypothesis is overly optimistic. Skill damage is a pretty rare modifier on equipment, and it's plausible that it functions differently in calculations than smash. It doesn't seem to make very much sense to me that it would work the way you think it does, though. For it to work that way, you'd have to assume that, under the hood, the game performs a damage calculation on the base chaser, then a damage calculation on evo chaser, and then a final calculation when the chaser is launched. I see no reason to believe that that's what's happening, especially since this process would also apply to smash and elenore effects (and we know that it does not work that way).

    The analysis window suggests that from the game standpoint, only one skill actually deals damage, that being Chaser Launcher or Chaser Launcher EX. By the way, if your hypothesis is right, Chaser Launcher would function as a second or third "stage" as well, since it's hard to argue that it's not a skill. At any rate, no matter what chasers they are, their size, or whether they're evolved or not, all the damage is attributed to the launching skill. That suggests strongly to me that from a game-mechanic standpoint it's far more likely that the 10% is just being applied on the single calculation that occurs when the chaser is launched. For that matter, there's no way for Fire Chaser or Evolution Chaser to deal damage independent of being launched, so if you're correct, a) the game performs damage calculations on skills that don't and can't deal damage, and b) every chaser should be at least double-dipping already.

    Last note. In our upcoming first revamp, Groove was changed to +skill damage %. If those effects behaved the way you expected, after the first revamp battle mage damage should have spiked. Instead, all available kDnF information suggests that the first revamp didn't do enough to fix the class. It's possible that skill damage double or triple dips and that still wasn't good enough, but I suspect that someone in Korea would have figured out what was going on by now if that was the case.

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