Elementalist Despair and Ascension theory/footnotes/discussion

Discussion in 'Elementalist' started by Dubin, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. Dubin carried by fmage

    Posts:
    1,211
    All the floors
    throw Hodor at it
    Also max Icewalls + Disenchant is troll tier slow =3= and max Fire Pillar is p.nice for trolling from safety and for setting up Black Hole cycles.
    Floors 1-4: Two priests and two gunners
    and yah maybe throw in a DE to turn off RoL
    Floor 7 gunner guy who bombards room with missiles
    Floor 8 f.fighter with a mix of striker/brawler/etc. and a status counter
    She actually does McLargeHuge damage if you let her catch you '3' so don't let her catch you. Use t2s to keep her from killing Hodor right off.
    Floor 9 some f.gunner
    Another haxbleed, but with harmless AI. Super annoying to get caught by a random topspin into instagib while you're trying to set up a black hole cycle o:<
    Floor 10 player ghost of the day (week?) Ghost of 04/18/2015: Farshaw the Monk!
    one shit em with litstrk

    ~
    Floor 5: The friggin rogue
    So it's really super critical that you throw a Hodor at her before she starts going H.A.M. One touch is literally death. And I have no idea how to dodge it the honest way '3' I just got lucky with my AI loop.
    Floor 6: Blonde Tyler
    So she's gonna one-shit anything and sundry that she touches, so you throw a Hodor at her when youse ready to cube cycle. When you're waiting on Hodor to cool down, Palm Blast is actually your best getaway '3' wait for her to do that AI troll thing where they walk over to right below you and juke straight up the y, Palm Blast her and use the momentum to run away while she's still falling to the ground. Fire Pillar predict where she's gonna run to, and litstrk. A litstrk -> festival black hole godwalls litstrk -> litstrk took care of her for me '3'
    one shit em with...yeah, you get the idea
    Floor 11 rogue who tosses kunai and has that troll ice guardian icicle
    Okay so she does p.weak damage after like five one-shit Tylers in a row '3' she'll still one-touch you if you get frozen, which is annoying.
    Floor 12 Kuran
    A supreme eazymoda! He's vulnerable to stun, he's weak to light, and he doesn't even do any damage when you have Hodor tanking his melee and Icewalls tanking his asura skills. Just remember, his gimmick is to shoot boomerangs and slow at you every few hits, so throw up some Walls before you charge your big money cubes.
    Floor 13 Dark Elf Woodsman with one-shit Atomic Smash (which the Manzer Prodor can just tank like a boss)
    Floor 14 Medicine witch who throws the poison bottles
    She's passive and aoe enough that it's probably optimal to just spec out of Hodor Despair build and into your regular pve build to kill her faster. Arctic provides nice y-axis to hit her without getting insta-gibbed by poison.
    Floor 15 Three-room showdown!
    Room 1: Sader and Luncher tag team
    dont get caught by extrudah
    Room 2: Fbrawler with water spout ground projectiles
    dont get caught by cyclone suplex
    Actually, don't cast litstrk until she's holding your Hodor. She gets free random SA to one-shit you with cyclone otherwise =3=
    Room 3: tiny elf girl Goku battlemage
    Another Sun Wukong reference! Don't get caught by BM anything.
    one shotem with flammgod
    Floor 16 mfighter Master of All M.Fighting
    Not even worth it trying to fight him head-on; just run away and Fire Pillar until he eventually somehow kites onto Hodor, them one-shit him. He has low enuf m.def and hp that he's nearly ded after one Buster-Litstrk '3'
    Floor 17 m.grapp from hell
    Obv with his haxxed too-long Rockin' Assault Beats! you'll want to stay far away from him. Buster aoe and Palm Blast keepaway were emphasized in my run, over Maximum Litstrk.
    Floor 18 screaming asura
    oh gawd the asura. This mite be a problem if we didn't have Hodor and Disenchant '3' He does have surprise one-shits out of nowhere, and an AI script that defaults to staying away from you for the most part, so not even worth it trying to touch him until you have Hodor out.
    Floor 19 Stinky Folio
    sniff her butt *u*
    Floor 20 Ghost of the day 4/23: Stormo the slayer!
    Floor 24 Trio of f.launchers
    Okay, so you'll probably get caught by triple flame booster and lose most if not all your health right away. GGs =3= Otherwise they don't even do damage. Hodor doesn't do much to kite long-range enemies as well as he does melee, but I think he still splits their fire enough to give you breathing space? Either way I feel like focusing on taking one at a time is most effective. Dead ones won't revive if you token *u*
    Floor 25 The four elemental witches
    So for this floor and the next it's going to start being worth it to go through the trouble of maxing mana shield.
    Dant bother with Void, you need as much y-axis troll as possible here. Fire pillar is god.
    • Room 1 Fire. Just let Hodor kite the lanterns. Wait for him to disappear.
    • Room 2 Lightning. Hodor will kill you with EMM bounce '3' You can literally camp each room clear until FVV is ready and just one-shit each witch like that. Icewalls is god, and you can wait outside of EMM range until she goes into Collider, then Walls -> Litstrk or whatever.
    • Room 3 Snow. Eyuh, just one-shit her with litstrk. Icewalls is god.
    • Room 4 Swatter of death. Flammgod cycle one-shits her '3'
    Floor 26 Ultimate Ghost Orb
    Against the m.def from cloth + mastery, the biggest threat is his melee combos. It's worth it to stay far, far away while Hodor kites him, until cubes are ready.
    Sheeeyit, would've been good to record demonstrations. I'll have to start recording from now on.
    ~
    [​IMG] list
    Floor 21 Generic "all skills" ffighter? DE her SA and litstrk
    Floor 22 Stylish m.ranger kicks!
    Floor 23 some m.exocan who sets up white tigers and doesn't even do damage?
    Floor 27 shadow dancing rogue
    A big threat. She'll kite onto your x-axis, and if she's on your x-axis you're basically dead at any time =3= It's pretty critical to get her lined up for a y-axis Palm Blast, get Hodor kiting her asap, and snipe her with as much y-axis as possible.
    Floor 28 shadow kick
    Silly ez pz rogue *u* I'm sure she's got one-shit strength, but Hodor kites her well enuf and she's one of the "you come to me" ToDes scripts. Easy to camp flammgod on her, although it's annoying trying to catch her with raw Lightning Strike.
    I had mana shield at lv1 and still didn't die to one hit, which just goes to show how little a difference it makes in ToDes =w=
    Turns out I also completely forgot to Upgrade anything but Litstrk. Ele OP power go! ヽ( ゚∀゚)人(゚∀゚ )ノ
    Floor 29 Roberto the Mach
    hue, I thought this was gonna be worse than it was =3= Just running away from his "finger gun" homing shockwaves is enuf. He doesn't do enough damage to one-shit Hodor, so go h.a.m.
    Floor 30 ghost of the day 04/28/2015: CharlieTier the priestu!
    litlist
    Floor 31 master of seals
    Annoying troll '3' literally silence spam will do you in more than the damage he deals. Spam Icewalls.
    Floor 32 baseball guy
    Burn is where all the damage is. Icewalls necessary to cast spells '3'
    Floor 35 Three bears
    Take out the slayer first, I guess? I remember this being a lot harder in old DFO. Ele powr! :fmage:
    Floor 36 In and Out Kaleio (landrunner spamming fmech)
    Just remember to take time out to fire pillar every so often a swarm of landrunners and you're golden :fmage:
    Floor 37 Iron Legs Julie
    Disenchant her Super Armor, throw Hodor at it, camp cubes and Void. Simple :9:
    Floor 38 The cyborg monk
    I think he was supposed to be difficult in old DFO? Whatever, Hodor kites his super jump punch, cubes kills him in a flash. I took Icewalls to stop...something? but it's easy enough to dodge his attacks that you can go Void for the slightly quicker kill.
    Floor 39 f.ranger
    She trolls with topspin kick before she gets within Palm Blast range '3' max Sunburst? w/e, throw Hodor at it
    Floor 40 Ghost of the day 05/03/2015: 2333333 the priestu

    ~
    [*]Involved Duderinos
    Floor 33 Final Evolution Mewoo Mewoo
    Warning: Spec Hodor to 0 before entering this fight!
    An ffighter with the brawler awaken passive of bleeding poison all over you and access to at least brawler and striker skills. She has plenty of ways to surprise one-shit you, including Lightning Dance off of your Hodor :fmage:
    I opted to go for Void, Pillar, and Mana Shield. It's fairly easy to play keepaway with Fire Pillar and Void, and as long as you stay alive long enough for godwalls to appear you win.
    -If you get caught You're Already Dead, so just roll with it :fmage:
    -She tends to approach on the x axis instead of the y and have SA/fast approaches, so Palm Blast is less Jesus than it normally is.
    Floor 34 Sprinter Sill
    Try not to get caught by a rogue cube grab :fmage:

    Floor 41 mmech from the webcomic or smth
    Troll hit recovery. Nice chunks '3' but still just litstrk fodder.
    Floor 42 tri-multiplying necro
    No damage :fmage: although you can hang out at the bottom of the screen and buff up / summon Hodor before the fight begins proper.
    Floor 43 panther necro
    The most annoying thing is just that she'll run away from everything and get ages and ages of i-frames with panther form '3' I opted for Void for damage and Icewalls because fuck cast interrupt trolling.
    Floor 44 Go Down Moses
    Way Way Down
    Tell oh, Pharaoh
    Let My People Go
    Floor 45 Manhunt Search Team (2x f.mech)
    G-1 and Gale Force hitstun too troll. Bring Icewalls. :fmage:
    Floor 46 Soaring Outo (shoryuken-spamming f.striker)
    qt portrait :fmage:
    Super annoying mspd. Waiting for Hodor to kite her is basically the only way to get a hit in. She'll only spam Rising Fist and the lv70 move, so you can run away from her/Palm Blast her before she gets a hit in.
    Floor 47 The medicine man bleed m.brawler
    Obv don't want to get caught by his needle spin =3= mostly just throw Hodor at it and snipe from extreme y-axis
    Floor 48 The priest from the webcomic!
    Classic pre-priest patch look! Phoenix Hammer is troll, but litstrk is troller
    Floor 49 Drillcar driver
    I threw Hodor Pillar and Frosty at it '3'
    Floor 50 Ghost of the day: MAYUMISAVIOR ffighter!

    So let's see
    • Obv the best thing is to have a "running track" around the room so that you never have to last-minute juke the meteor. More breathing space and margin for error :fmage:
    • Max Icewalls and upgrade why is this even a question
    • Hodor keeps Ixia occupied and tossing BH's at him plenty well so you can spend time dodging the meteos.
    • The meteor will take a sharp turn every so many pixels. It's sharp enough to home in accurately, but infrequent enough that you can juke it with diagonals and direction-changes.
    • I honestly have no idea if my godwalls and flammgod spam did anything to make this shorter '3'
    [​IMG]"press cubes!"
    Floor 52 fspit with yellow skin
    Wait for her to cast Indom, DE it, throw Hodor and Pillar at it :fmage:
    Floor 53 le true summy
    Kasi summoned during countdown. Fair n balancd start for fair n balancd opponent :fmage:
    Uh, survive until godwalls? I have no idea, she just gibbed on the first buster after I hit that point '3'
    Floor 54 insect master something or other
    Floor 55 Two rooms monk fight! Room 1 Challenger Big House
    Room 2 Champion Locky
    Don't forget you can camp flamevoid loop for room 2 :fmage: Especially if you used it on room 1. Room 2 guy has way less defense and way more damage, so it's hella worth it.
    Floor 56 Tiny Shalott (mini rogue)
    Due to her random rogue awakening finisher out of fucking nowhere, which *will* grab and one-shot you if you're anywhere close to Hodor, it's best to just lob frosties and flamevoid from way off screen while Hodor keeps her occupied in the corner. One of the few floors where arctic is a better max than lightning strike or even halloween buster.
    Tower of Ascension

    throw Hodor at it
    This is from old Nexan DFO but Hodorbuild still made it consistent to no-token the new version. Eventually I might throw up a DFOG run, now with more flammgod and lv6 speed-shot Astral.

    Here, have an up to date tryhard run. '3'

    But yah that's what's been working for me so far what's working for you guise '3' so despair and pain doing these without chrons

    ~

    Buildus
    So let's talk ToDes builds ヽ( ゚∀゚)人(゚∀゚ )ノ
    I'm of the firm belief that the build alone makes or breaks the "ele vs ToDes" experience. On old Nexon DFO I went from being stuck on floor 5 for a week, to steamrolling the entire place thrice (!) (by now) so easily that I forget to write down strategies, just with a shift in build.

    The principles I use for ToDes spec is basically:
    1. PvP/survival tactics. This is the "throw Hodor at it" tech that everyone's already got, and my Top Sekrit lv1 Palm Blast + max Phase Shift tech (it's not that top secret).
    2. Cube moves still do the most damage. This is why I spec Buster + LS, and why camping Flamevoid was easier than trying to do an infinite standing combo against that fbrawler on floor 98 or wherever.
    So anyway, my build looks like:
    (aside from standard core maxes like burn - memorize move cast - etc)
    1. Max Hodor to start with, and max Phase Shift. Of course you're going to want max Phase Shift for a "pvp-like" environment. Mana Shield is security for the same reason, although I've been skipping it for crits/AM lately *u*
    2. Disenchant is Troll As Fuck
    3. Lv1 Palm Blast. Palm Blast is your best move for keeping aggro-kiting enemies off your cute loli butt to create space for Hodor and cubes. It has a low cd, it hits on frame one, you can charge it for SA, and it recovers instantly so you can get right to running away again. Sunburst and Icewalls have that recovery, and Fire Pillar has that startup, that gives aggro-cheating APCs the half-window they need to come in and one-combo you. I only take lv1 because I'm using it for mobility, with buster-litstrk who has time for cubeless damage!
    4. T2s. Fire Pillar, Sunburst, Icewalls, and Void are basically designed for the pvp keepaway situation that ToDes is practically designed for. You can shift this away back to more cube burst when you get to higher floors that are a lot more gimmicky:

      But for the early floors, having a maxed t2 or two is going to make your life much easier. For my builds so far I've been running Upgraded Pillar + Icewalls.
    5. Max Buster - LS - BH - Flamevoid - Shining Ice Fence. Again, cubes will always do the most damage no matter the situation. Pve cycles actually do more burst damage faster even in pvp '3' it's just that human players are smart enough to dodge pve move cycles that AI will sit there and eat. A Buster + LS at t=15s is usually enough that the opponent is dead by the time godwalls shows up, and I recently remembered that activating Festival at t=15s still gives enough Festival duration to cast the BH -> godwalls loop with cd reduction bonus.
      I usually find the space to fit in at least fire mastery and light mastery.
    And then I dump the remaining sp into AM/crits because of course I want more damage to burst them down faster =3= I'll see about recording some floor clears.
    Basically "normal pve maximum burst with Icewalls and Void". Let's see:
    1. Max all the cubes--4 3x t3, godwalls, flammgod.
    2. Standard ele core memorize move cast burn yada yada
    3. Standard Dubin ele core max phase shift lv1 palm yada yada
    4. Max Void. I used to have Icewalls too, but I tried without when the loss of damage sp dumps killed my clear time and yeah, I don't need the walls *u* J/K SUNBURST VOID BUILD STRONGEST THERE IS DROP BUSTER TO FIT IT IN
    5. For eles having trouble, Hodor does wonders here as well, kiting away the massively dangerous burning corpses on Wave 3 Hard, Mr. Pistol Whip on Wave 4 Hard, and the ice auras from hell on Wave 5 Hard. But really, if augustus can do 5min AoA with a +0 purple I'm p.sure Hodor is just a mental crutch and ele already has the Music In You :fmage: to just completely one-shit everything for free and sundry
    I used to drop crits/AM/AL to 0 to fit everything all in, but as I've been paring it down to just t3s + Void I've been able to fit AL and some dump crit back in *u* Void is there to keep the damage flowing for the few seconds your cubes are on downtime.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  2. Dubin carried by fmage

    Posts:
    1,211
    My current Ascension is 8mins and change. Is that fast enough for a vid or do I Gotta Go Faster?

    So I'm pretty damn sure the burn on Wave 3 Elise's Soul is physical damage. It barely even scratches my Creator and her plate mastery, vs the free one-shits it gets on squishy cloth ele ;_;

    Edit: Right now the only thing I can do for a better Ascension is Token to Save Time :fmage: nah just joshin there should be some combination of alchemy potions that allows one to roflstomp this place

    Double Edit: So I literally bought a lv70 pink mseal and the IA + flammvod/godwalls boosts by themselves cut my AoA time by 25% or more
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
  3. Dubin carried by fmage

    Posts:
    1,211
    Up-to-date Altar of Ascension run! ヽ( ゚∀゚)人(゚∀゚ )ノ

    I got a new PB, it counts

    I also have a run where everything went wrong (that feel when you hit gbl clones before your flamevoid cycle is ready) that I wanted to upload, but ermagerd this one took ages as it is. I'll come around to it eventually '3'
    Ed: Here, have a sub-5min with top sekrit Void meta.

    mostlike I'll add another run with a +0 purple staff and neither the sub nor the stone so as to demonstrate how Hodor solves everything (almost).
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015

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