Discussion in 'Berserker' started by Poison, May 19, 2014.
Discuss about the berserker class here.
I heard somewhere that you didn't get your Zerk past level 50 or something like that.
I was lied to.
A certain someone was upset that I made this thread before him and lost the chance to show off his ugly zerk ;v;
lol. I got my Zerk to level 68 as well and then gave up....
http://arad.ofli.es/plan/berserker#AgAAAMWBAcWAAcSoEcSpAcSwEsSqCsSrF8SsAcStEMSvFcSyAcSuDMSxEsS1DcS2CMS AcS/A8SOCsSPAcSaHsSMAcSbHMSYEAYKCgHPpxvPqRvPqwXPrAXPrxTPsAjPtApDA8ShA8S7A8S8As eAQ==
How is this build for PvE? I left points out of zan mastery because thirst is apparently pretty good. There are like no up to date zerk resources.
drop raging fury cancel to max out mastery
Done, everything else looks solid?
I don't care about mastery.
It barely helps your damage as extremely few of them deals any percentile damage and two of them are half percent half fixed.
Other reason is because then that just leaves the reason for the bonus to hit, except frenzy and blood memory both give bonuses to hit, enough to make up for the lack of a mastery.
I recommend using bludgeons btw.
Greatswords offer nothing over bludgeons except a very tiny increase of attack power, which again doesn't matter as nearly all your damage is fixed, while for those that do care if they're taking twister, again only a very small increase of attack over bludgeons, while bludgeons offer faster attack speed and much higher strength which does affect fixed damage.
Plus they're far cheaper.
Unless you plan on being at extremely low hp all the time, which should rarely be the case thanks to all your ways to recover hp, I see no need for bloody cross, especially one left at lv10 for whatever reason.
Yes I'm being an ass about it.
You can choose to agree or disagree, but I'm being a hardass for a reason.
Hit rate is extremely important in this game if you don't have any hit rate your going to fucking have a bad time in this game, your going to be missing so much and suffer a huge dps loss. It's the main reason why we even max masteries in the first time.
Hardass? More like dumbass.
I forgot to max my mastery on my Zerk before and I missed so much shit
I'm sorry, do you even know what this class does?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Hit rate qp, blood memory and frenzy all raise hit rate.
Even without mastery berserkers get more hit rate than most other classes in the game.
abloobloobloo i missed one in a thousand attacks woe is me, sure is worth wasting 400sp for.
It's apparent that you guys really don't agree with the mastery thing, but how true is what he said about bludgeons? I kind of like them, but if Zans are just flat out better I'll just stick to them.
seems like more people agree with mastery than disagree. bludgeons vs. zans could use a bit more discussion. i'm interested, too. never touched a zerk before, but i'm thinking about it.
Oh dear, seems I missed some posts in this thread.
Alright I'm gonna boil this down and be blunt.
Berserker is not an entirely fixed class, we have quite a bit of percent
Berserker is not an x spam class once you get to endgame
Weapon doesn't matter that much (although in general Zanbatos are better imo), only thing that matters is getting the good epics
Let's be clear here, I've never heard of someone dropping the mastery. The mastery gives you 22% physical attack and about 6% hit rate. I'm guessing he would also say upgrading your weapon is pointless because we don't need the reinforcement ??? I have no idea what he's going on about. With mastery and the QP passive you'll have 16% hitrate, which is about just enough to never miss. But here's the thing, you don't -ever- want your attacks to miss. Because you will fucking die. Trust me, while you're leveling and you get "Stuck" on a Blood Sword, you'll be pissed. You miss out on a ton of damage and fuck yourself over because you're being stingy on a few SP. Don't be dumb, hitrate is one of the most important stats in the game. Plus you get free damage. What's not to love?
I'm using 'you' generally here not referring to you in specific
Yeah, good luck getting that passive when you're not bleeding anything because you're missing all your attacks.
So, you think a 20 increase in strength from using a bludgeon over a zanbato is 'much higher strength' but a 100+ physical attack difference (and more when you consider piercing!) is a 'very tiny increase of attack power'? I'm sorry but how does that make any sense. You're seriously over exaggerating how much extra strength bludgeons give. Also not to mention 20 strength is a completely negligible to your damage. I personally have no problem using either or, but don't try to shit on Zanbatos when they're fairly evenly matched.
You're half right. Leaving Bloody Cross at 10 is silly, you either max it or don't. Why get some 'meh' benefits from being low when you can get really good ones. But you're going to be at low HP all the time if you ever run a difficult dungeon. Like it's pretty fucking obvious you've never even done OV on a Berserker. In OV and the more difficult ancient dungeons it's impossible to keep your HP up because there's nothing to regain it on. That's the entire reason we get Diehard as well. Would you say Diehard is useless too? You know, since we never get low on HP. I mean obviously once you get super geared and clear ancients in 30 seconds then yes, Diehard/Bloody Cross would be useless, but it would make no sense to give information based on that.
And for normal dungeons it doesn't matter, but who gives about normal dungeons. They're not hard for anyone at this point. I can clear Iron Scale with just Gore Cross and Mountainous Wheel. All that matters is ancient dungeons and OV.
Well, you should stop.
Note: I'm only being so blunt because you are. I'm open to discussing new things or talking through people's thoughts on these sorts of things, but you come in here and start parading around like you're the fucking master of Berserkers with this crap. I don't know what you expected.
You either need to max Bloody Cross or drop it. If you want to max it, drop Upward Slash and WWS. That'll also give you enough SP to finish off your Zanbato Mastery.
If you drop it, you can get Kazan. Free +100 strength buff everywhere you go. Awesome skill.
If you wanted to get both Kazan and Bloody Cross, you could drop Blood Memory (my personal recommendation tbh).
Blood Memory scales really poorly, it doesn't even double in effectiveness from rank one to max. You get a nice strength boost from it even at level 1. Plus Blood Memory is just straight up useless in a lot of late game dungeons (one enemy per OV room usually, etc.) Blood Memory gives you 170 strength boost with 5 stacks at max rank. Rank one gets you 90 strength with 5 stacks. So not only is Kazan more efficient and will net your more strength (190 with both), it's more practical as well, because getting 5 stacks of your passive is pretty hard when you're in a real dungeon (i.e. not ghent shit easy dungeons).
http://arad.ofli.es/plan/berserker#AgAAAMWBAcWAAcSoEcSpAcSwEsSqEMSrF8SsAcStEMSvFcSyAcSuDMSxEsS1DcS AcS/A8SPAcSeCsSaHsSbHMSYEwYKCgHPpxvPqRvPqwXPrAXPrxTPsAjPtApDA8ShA8S7A8S8As eAQ==
I've almost always used Blood Memory at max, but I just don't think it's worth it to be quite honest.
Oh and by the way, Thirst is quintessential, not just pretty good. Gives like 20% extra damage to Outrage Break and Blood Sword.
Isn't it nice when someone actually comes up with a counterargument instead of stamping their feet and claiming you're wrong because "grr i disagree that means you're wrong. downvote. downvote.".
There's gore cross, mountainous wheel and bloody twister.
Two of these deal half fixed damage and neither deal significantly large damage end game and are more used for causing bleeding at that point.
Should one choose to max triple slash or wws is up to them and outside the norm of a berserker build.
If you're talking about that one greatsword that increases derange by 3 then I concede to that, but you also cant use it until high level and the elenore trumps it anyway.
Otherwise greatswords offer little benefit over bludgeons.
The mastery attack power is wasted on berserkers for the point about their skills above.
With the frenzy hit bonus and one bleeding enemy nearby you get 14.9% hitrate, just 1.1% less than the mastery gives, which is also enough to "just about never miss".
But I guess blood memory hit rate doesn't matter since, as you said, you apparently can't hit anything without the mastery hitrate.
Need more? Try a title, plenty of good ones offer some to hit rate, in fact there's one that just happens to be there for the sole purpose of hit rate the rhythm rider title. Then there's expensive event titles.
Or perhaps a magic sealed item with hitrate, a late game MS item can give almost as much hitrate as the mastery skill.
The strength difference is more than 20.
No, the additional attack power of greatswords doesn't really matter, because its not a huge difference and nearly all your damage by the end of the game is going to be cube skills and most of them are not bloody twister, if you're even using a build that maxes BT.
Now you're putting words in my mouth.
I never mentioned diehard and I do think it is a good skill.
I will concede that I do not have much experience with OV dungeons though.
I will also concede that per rank bloody memory gives poor scaling and would get more hitrate out of mastery for the same amount of points. If you really need it.
The main priority for weapons in zerks are damage modifiers. I used infractus for a good while before I got elenore on my zerk. That 20% crit damage is a huge boost compared to like...RDS which is like 2-3 times the price back then. The 2 pink 60 bluds are debatable.
I'll tell you right now it's mostly because the way you came off when you said it.
That's not really true, MW/GC/BT will always be a decent portion of your damage. You need something to do damage while your cubes are on cooldown, you'll end up using them quite often.
I'm not talking about a specific epic, I'm just saying it doesn't matter since that's the end game goal anyways. That's why I stopped caring so much about Zanbato vs Bludgeon (I used to call Bludgeons shit) because in the end you're going to be using some epic that's leagues better than anything else, no argument (like Elenore). But both zanbato and bludgeon are good in their own rights.
I forgot to include the Frenzy hitrate, which would give us 20% hitrate which is just enough to never miss. Like, actually never miss. Hitting that 20% mark is crucial because that's the difference between one of your cubes missing and causing you to get hit (which can easily mean death in OV and such), and obviously the missed damage. Missing OB hits or Blood Sword/Twisters is just painful to see.
Except when you finally upgrade your gear and you're not using magic seals, then what? And when you're using actual good titles that don't necessarily give hitrate (I will admit to the fact I don't know what titles are good in DnF anymore and there may be really good ones with a lot hit rate).
It's not much greater than 20 if anything. 30-40 at best but that's pretty generous and I don't believe it's that much. And I'd say doing 20~30% more damage on a cube skill -dependent on reinforcement- would be worth using a different type of weapon when there's no real cons to it.
Like I said though, I have no problems with Bludgeons or Zanbatos, I've used both myself.
I didn't put words in your mouth, I just asked "Would you say Diehard is useless too?"
Yeah basically this is what I was trying to get at with my comment about epic weapons.
edit: I have a question, Orbus. What's your opinion on reinforcing weapons as a Berserker?
Separate names with a comma.