Amalgun's Avenger Guide (always WIP)

Discussion in 'Avenger' started by Heinel, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Shirouzen Monster of God

    Posts:
    2,119
    Server:
    Cain
    Shadow is the only legit build on an avenger (esp if you want to be raid ready) but even gimmicky stuff is fine for stuff including normal anton if you dont have the gold to invest in it. The ice guild set does stupid damage for the effort you put into getting it and even antonio normals is doable even when im using the 75 pink boss scythe.
    A couple skills do take element but alot of your best skills are locked in shadow, and the epic weapons for avenger reflect that but using a 100pct demonize build mitigates the negative effect of using an off shadow element since youll be xxxing so much in said form.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  2. GhostlyCrow

    Posts:
    1,424
    Guild:
    Salty
    Then you're either being carried, have absurd levels of support, or are just there functioning as support. I can't imagine you're doing significant damage on your own.
     
  3. Shirouzen Monster of God

    Posts:
    2,119
    Server:
    Cain
    im no speed runner but i can solo smoke and battle pretty easily, but compared to full epics and bis weapons yeah i am being carried quite a bit. Still aint to shabby using broke gimmick equips on a low tier character.
     
  4. KingAmon

    Posts:
    278
    You can use an off-shadow element, but you're better off wearing general or shadow boosts for overall damage. Even at 250~ water damage, changing my aura from +15 Water to +15 Shadow in perma-Demonized tests leads to more damage due to the level of damage dealt indirectly(shadow locked). Boosting any element that isn't shadow is just plain bad(I'm lookin' at you and your sig Heinel ;) ).

    [​IMG]

    But I mean, the class is bad, so nothing to lose really. Play however is most fun :D
     
  5. Shirouzen Monster of God

    Posts:
    2,119
    Server:
    Cain
    One day they'll cycle through avengers again on the patch wheel, hopefully its something decent and not nonsensically irrelevant to core needs of the class. But for now it looks like ill be putting avenger on back burner with my sader until relevant fixes do come (still gotta record more solo vids but i got to stop being salty about nerbe forcing me to use tokens against his hp orb mechanic)

    Putting thor and hulk on the sidelines knowing dr strange and alucard will fair better.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  6. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

    Posts:
    45
    IGN:
    Amalgun
    Trust me, I'm trying.

    [​IMG]
    Some things are going to require a bit of...adjustment.
     
  7. KingAmon

    Posts:
    278
    There is a time in every Avenger's playtime, when they realize the class doesn't stack up to the rest. You have the option of Shirouzening the class and having fun, or going through hell to get through the gearwall for a maximum shadow build. I basically recommend you do both. Pretend you're the meme until you're not.

    In any case your gear (sans scythe, CP, and random chron ring) is better than mine. I mostly just run a proc setup for fun though, because it is SUPER fun. Your dps would actually go up if you wore the Inis Auto Belt btw(single DG peice doesn't do much good, wait until 2-3).
     
  8. Forte EXPERIENCE TRANQUILITY

    Posts:
    167
    IGN:
    KnuxForte
    Guild:
    Kinetic
    Honestly i moved this class which was going to be my main to the backburner, but ive never forgotten how fun it is

    i still got full chron swaps for him and i continue to occasionally throw him some love in the hopes that one day he'll get to shine more like the other classes

    but i dont think you should ever shelve this class if you have fun with it but feel discouraged knowing its not measuring up

    meme it till u ain't dreamin it anymore!
     
  9. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

    Posts:
    45
    IGN:
    Amalgun
    Yes, it was just a display of my shadow gear that is relatively incomplete. I actually wear the Freezing Cut Robe and the Inis Auto Belt.
     
  10. Jadefrost

    Posts:
    176
    Some of our best features are eaten by consumables. SA pots and shiny world toys give every class the defensive benefits of Demonize, yet soon the former item is getting nerfed which will add value back to the class.
     
  11. Bearmagus

    Posts:
    29
    So how do I stack up?
    avengerbuild.png
    Chron set is full Seething Thorn, but I also have 6 piece PoD and a Great Glory Bracelet. I'm working on getting my Bulky set, probably won't have it in time for raid, but soon.
    Only Epic is the +11 Garroter Sickle, and the title is +2 Scythe Mastery TAO.
    My Crit Rate will be going up very shortly, just waiting for some avas to unlock, and I'll be hitting 80%.
     
  12. Shirouzen Monster of God

    Posts:
    2,119
    Server:
    Cain
  13. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

    Posts:
    45
    IGN:
    Amalgun
    Well, I am not that much of an expert in rating in tiers, but 6pc PoD setting and Bulky full set with Garroter and appropriate crit rate should be good enough for doing anton normal with ease (in a party). You might be alright as a dealer in raid (C~B tier maybe?), but the gap between Garroter and Big Ghost's Demonic Grace is too big to ignore (when party play is involved). If you are well coordinated and are paired with a good support and another good dealer, it will be possible to do anton well enough but if you're accepted with that gear by a public party, I wouldn't expect the people you're with to really know what they're doing. Although, that setting is definitely good enough for most content.

    To make Garroter work well enough (in comparison to Demonic Grace), you will need far more powerful setting than 6pc PoD. Garroter is basically a better Liberation, but it is simply not good enough to be consistent in raid, unless you are in a party you work well with. The TAO title is nice (keep it for your savior scythe :thumbsup:), but the 4% more m.atk will not make up for the difference in raw power that 20% additional shadow elenore provides. At least, that is my analysis.

    Remember to work on your 6pc Flow of Calamity if you haven't gotten that already, and if you don't have enough money to grab a Fallen Heart Cross then Relic Defender's Scythe is suitable. I think it might be best for you to either obtain a better weapon or try some hells (if you haven't already). I might be incorrect regarding the potential dealing, but my knowledge of the class would lead me to believe that C tier to maybe low B tier may be possible depending on how well optimized you get. It'll be good enough if you run with a dedicated party I think. Running Nugol and testing your time after finishing Bulky full set will give you a more accurate rating.

    On a slightly unrelated note:

    [​IMG]
    Soon. When I get a real weapon. And sub. And bracelet. And ring. And maybe pants.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  14. Forte EXPERIENCE TRANQUILITY

    Posts:
    167
    IGN:
    KnuxForte
    Guild:
    Kinetic

    out of curiosity could i get some clean pictures of that scythe?

    Test out your setup and full bulky and see how long it takes to kill a nugol, perhaps.
    not gonna lie, pretty jealous you got an exclusive scythe that ive always wanted to play around with
     
  15. Bearmagus

    Posts:
    29
    scythe.png
    Scythe looks pretty boring actually. Recolor of the Growing Scythe/Relic Defender's Scythe.

    As for testing Nugol, I'm gonna wait until I have Bulky, which might be a while.

    Did some math on how much crit I should be able to get. I can get an additional 10 crit from the Bulky bracelet, bringing me to 90. And I still need shoulder enchants which should bring me to 95. Dat last 2 % tho... :/
     
  16. KingAmon

    Posts:
    278
    98% is good enough. You'll never see a yellow number on your main damage. Especially in a party, where there is always a crit debuff or crit buff AoE going around. I'm jealous, I love that scythe. 9 peice seething is garbage for anything other than farming. 6 peice PoD will give you good dps, but tbh you won't break B tier with that setup. Even then, it's hard to play. Bulky will help a lot. I'd aim for a legendary set until you can replace peices with good mixed epics. Or you can go straight from chrons to epics, depending on your funding. Don't invest much in chron, 6 peice flow swap is the most I ever use outside of OV.

    Gear alone doesn't mean much though. Just test yourself at nugol and use your time as a way to figure out how ready you are. If you can break 2 minutes(without shave) you can probably consider your damage decent, for an avenger. Sub 1:30 is more where you should be at though to consider yourself an asset, because we don't have amazing burst.

    Edit: I forgot to touch on Demonic Grace. This cross is generally regarded as BiS(for now), despite being a cross, due to the overwhelming potential power of +20% additional shadow damage. However, the entire reason Avengers try builds using other elements, or disregard the shadow element in choosing gear, is due to the fact we don't have a large natural pool. I think by default avenger only gets shadow damage from 1 buff, Falling Soul, and I can't remember the exact value, but it's only worth 26ish shadow damage(+1 shadow per level, and slightly over 30 with flow swap). We receive 10 to all element from dimensional stone quests, so that's 36 shadow. My point being that unless you have a shadow gear setup already, and enchants, etc, 20% additional shadow might not be that much(I mean without gear it'd still be an elenore number roughly 23.6% of your final damage I think). If you have mostly chron gear or general damage gear(INT, M.attack, Smash, Procs, etc.) then you'd be better off using a scythe for higher m.attack, speed, and getting the damage from the mastery bonus instead.

    I've actually broken a couple of these crosses trying to get a +12, only used +11s thus far. I don't have DG so I can't make the most of it, and the damage is "meh" until then. At 220 shadow though(to keep it simple) the elenore number should be 40%, which is considerable. Full DG will of course give you even more. According to the guide you need 210 to beat a Liberation scythe, considering max mastery.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  17. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

    Posts:
    45
    IGN:
    Amalgun
    Well, your crit rate will be good enough for most dealing already (if your support has crit aura, then you're good).

    On the subject of Demonic Grace, it exceeds Liberation in terms of damage past 210 shadow damage. While it might appear hard, if you use a setup similar to mine, it will actually be not that hard to achieve. I use the Summer Festival Shadow aura for 15 shadow damage and I use the Passionate Samba pet for 15 shadow damage. Then, if you have level 30 Falling Soul (that's +7 levels) like me, if you use 6pc FoC to swap you will achieve 45 shadow damage from Falling Soul. After swapping back to my regular gear, I have about almost 200 shadow damage. Now, that's with like, Blackness Auto, Sheyd's Tear, and one like +8 shadow damage enchant, not including the shadow damage from Fallen Heart Cross's option (so I already have above 210 shadow damage). With more decent gear and Falling Soul levels (you could get like 2 or 3 more than what I have here?), you will be able to achieve above 210 easily enough with proper optimization.

    Now, it is true that Liberation (and Garroter by extension) will very likely be better for solo play with chronicle setting, it is far inferior for party play in context of Anton raid. If you had Bulky full set, enchanted it with like, +8 (for example) shadow damage for each piece and you had the aura/pet I mentioned, with a Sheyd's Tear you'd achieve about, 140-150 shadow damage? That's a ballpark. In any case, it is clear that Demonic Grace is inferior at this point. But in a party scenario, if you were with a Soul Bender, let's say they shredded like, 100 shadow resist.

    It's basically equivalent to 100 additional shadow damage for you, so using the equation for additional elemental elenore:
    (.20)(1.05 + 0.0045 x 240) = 0.42 (42% increase in damage)

    Since Liberation + Scythe Mastery is about equal to 40% or so increased damage, this is superior to that setting. That's not by much though, but this IS with chron setting, so with the more shadow damage you get, the better it becomes. The shred number is a very low ballpark for a Soul Bender (and you might get put with a DT too, if the Soul Bender's control is not that much up to snuff) and it doesn't take into account any auras people might have (tact belt aura, resist shred aura, etc.). So getting Demonic Grace is such a good investment for the class, unless you luck out and get Savior Scythe at random. Basically the point is, if you intend on raiding with this character, it would be best for you to advance your setting with Demonic Grace and improving your swaps (in the very least), if not advancing past chronicle setting.

    A real Soul Bender with proper setting and such will be able to shred upwards of 200 shadow resist with Oblivion setting, even above 300.

    Edit: I should mention that above like, 750 or so (? About?) Demonic Grace can exceed Savior Scythe. With an Oblivion Bender support that is amazing and you with gear like Dark Gothic full set, it is possible. This is indicative of additional elemental elenore's incredible scaling ability.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  18. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

    Posts:
    45
    IGN:
    Amalgun
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Well, that's something. I can improve it a bit with better control, but it is progressing.
     

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)