Amalgun's Avenger Guide (always WIP)

Discussion in 'Avenger' started by Heinel, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    Amalgun
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  2. Jadefrost

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    Well-written, fluent and comprehensive. Gives a clear picture of how the class is played. Has value for both new players and experienced players. Most of the information is accurate. I know how much work it is to create a guide this complete, and I'm impressed you have the dedication to do it. Not as much PvP content as I would have hoped, but I suppose you're only catering to your clients.

    Feedback as a veteran avenger:
    It's nice to see someone so well-versed write a guide. It's clear to me that you know the class inside and out. I run a Demonize (end-game) build with DG, and I deplore pandemonium. It doesn't fit well in combos, and it's frame-length is too long to merit its damage. I much prefer maxing Dark Authority and its TP. Also, 1 point in High Speed TP gives it a faster recovery time in demonize.

    I've tested basic attack training and magic cataclysm, and I recall it working with Metamorphosis but not with Demonize. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't, but then again I may have missed something.

    Some friendly criticism: You balance the text well with images. Add some videos. A good place would be the combo section. Also, perhaps you could include some hypothetical info, like how Ripper is worth maxing with Angra Maniuu, or how Painful Rapture will be worth stacking in a future patch.

    All of this sincerely.
     
  3. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    Yes, someone told me that about Magic Cataclysm some time ago so I am adjusting it now. Thanks, I will likely add some more hypothetical scenarios and videos in the future.

    Edit: I will say though that in a long enough scenario, I would definitely approve of abandoning Pandemonium in favor of Dark Authority but it deals quite a bit of damage so if your damage is high enough, it is definitely applicable for damage in a shorter timeframe as Dark Authority needs some time to execute its full damage. I will change my guide to mention it though.

     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
  4. Jadefrost

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    It looks like execute's damage got hugely boosted from the last patch? From one of your videos, it appeared to deal twice as much damage as devil's clutch.
     
  5. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    I'm not really sure, looking at the changes to Avenger on KDnF there's nothing to suggest that Execution should be that powerful (particularly because it is fixed). Maybe I just underestimate the power of the ability but maybe it had some undocumented changes. On his pre-DG nerf Durable Leg run, he damage caps with it.
     
  6. Everspace I will murder your family

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    A scythe + mastery is almost always better than rosary of equal level and rarity. You should not suggest discarding it, especially since the ASPD it gives is valuable.

    It's probably easier to find really, really high reinforcement rosaries than scythes however.
     
  7. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    I'm sorry, but what exactly are you talking about?
     
  8. Everspace I will murder your family

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    In the google doc, you say 0-10 on Sycthe mastery. It's really not an option, it's pretty much always 10.
     
  9. GhostlyCrow

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    Unless he just added the next part, it says right under that header to max if using scythe.
     
  10. Everspace I will murder your family

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    Which is why I was pointing it out. There is 0 reason to use a rosary.
     
  11. GhostlyCrow

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    Nobody said anything about a rosary. He mentions the Big Ghost's Demonic Grace cross, though.
     
  12. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    That's not actually 100% true. Wooyo's Golden Rosary is fairly decent (edged out by Liberation Scythe or is pretty close although you lose attack speed, but it is still a decent weapon to use until you obtain more advanced shadow off-chronicle setting).
     
  13. Forte EXPERIENCE TRANQUILITY

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    I have no good definite proof right, now but you can at least see that (just wooyo) can be used in some situations (like not having a scythe).
    You can try to project what the differences would be here, but it its only a rough estimate. Liberation scythe should beat out the rosary, but after reworks this could possibly change (at most, it would beat a lib scythe.) It'd lose out to the reworked scythes, but im just trying to make a point that if you have one, there's no reason not to at least use it till you get a better weapon.

    Using: Scythe Mastery +11
    Disclaimer: im fully aware that we're comparing a requiem to an epic rosary thats +11'ed , but requiem scythe goes from (Looking at +0 Stats) 1286 MATK to 1298 MATK, with 5 % more elenore, and Wooyo is going to be 1733 MATK --> 20% elenore, 30 ele damage, and a 15% chance on skill usage to increase MATK by 12% and party members.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Yeah, you can definitely get an upgrade but hey, why not

    I'm not trying to push this as a viable build but more of an in-between step.




    Again, not saying you should do this, but im really only doing this because its the stronger option at the moment..

    I'd kill for a better weapon.. i have frozen resonance and it feels like ass compared to this
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
  14. Shirouzen Monster of God

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    Some epics are just amazing regardless of type.
    *Continues to offer innocent souls to the dark lord for a 90 pink/legendary/epic demonize scythe*
     
  15. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    The guy's whose videos I was using as reference just made all of his videos private. :dead1:

    Edit: Nevermind they're back now. Thank the gods.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  16. Everspace I will murder your family

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    Yea, if you're dealing in epics most of the gearing guide goes out the window since you're dealing with what you have for the most part. I hope you know enough about the class when running into epics to make the proper judgement. Wooyo is pretty much the only weapon that's competitive with the scythes after some mathing I did a long time ago (Elenore, and proc are nice). 108 Beads are just bluh. Wooyo's is blown out by other 80+ scythes I think. You MAY convince me to try out Accursed Cross for shits and giggles.

    I find losing the magic conversion for your X attacks to be depressing.

    Also, I would use Demonize and Meta as a comparison. Losing the ASPD in forms could be very sad.

    Yea, you got the short end of the scythe there. Every other 80+ scythe will probably be better than the Wooyo's.
     
  17. Everspace I will murder your family

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    It implies it. I was hoping to be more explicit with the guide. Mastery is 99.9% of the time a must max, except when you have <these weapons>.
     
  18. Heinel Water Avenger and Guide Writer

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    I mean, it's pretty straightforward. If you use a scythe, use Scythe Mastery. If you don't, don't use Scythe Mastery. Wooyo's is basically near equal to Liberation and that's the main point, to be an intermediary weapon until you obtain more powerful setting since you don't have any other epic weapons.
     
  19. Forte EXPERIENCE TRANQUILITY

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    I was speaking strictly about epics, yeah... absolutely every other rosary for them is ass, and yeah its really only an intermediate. I did testing with it versus the +10 requiem back and it was winning by a reasonable amount, but at liberation i dont see it winning until the rework later.

    The only other scythe is garroter, and that just has 20 crit damage. I'm actually reasonably sure that would lose too, since its not hard to get 10 percent crit damage, or in the case you get an ABR. The scythes have the same stats, so the moment you breach 20 percent crit damage the frozen is immediately better


    i do have videos of comparison actually



    with the rosary i tend to want to be in meta more since i dont feel the aspd difference as more, i just spam devil strike. in demonize the burst damage is great though
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  20. KingAmon

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    Nice guide. While I disagree with some of your opinions, the facts are spot-on.

    To help contribute, I'll let you know that you can use Fallen Heart Cross wisdom blessing with a Crusader. The wisdom blessing isn't linked to the buff. You can't give wisdom blessing to someone else and have them get the buff. In fact you don't need to complete the wisdom blessing cast to get the buff. The buff is applied when you cast wisdom blessing, and lasts the same duration. If you get wisdom blessing cast on you afterwards, by yourself or a Crusader, it has no effect on the shadow damage buff.

    I'll also let you know that, at no point, is it worth using Sea God for the water damage, or Frozen Resonance Scythe. I built a significant build out of water based epics/legendaries in order to test the potential. The problem is simple however. Too many of our attacks are the indirect damage type. This means your weapon element has no influence on the damage. Frozen Resonance Sickle is in my opinion, the most worthless of worthless epics, as devil strike(meta or not) is indirect damage locked in shadow element. Only the xxxxx melee hits will be water damage. Even using a Gracia build would be better, because the light explosions add good damage.
     

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