[6th kDNF to DFOG] Third Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mms0208, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. mms0208 A Certain Ressurected Translator Passing by

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    In kDNF, there’s a controversy going on about Switching gears (about pulling out abnormal damage on certain skill by switching gears, the cost it takes to get switching gears, etc), I want to know how DFOG players think of switching and what kind of improvements are desired. - Ruliweb Nickname Udica (우디카), Recc'd 3 Times.
     
  2. Bladester

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    Swapping is fucking horrible and I wish it wasn't in the game or Neople had patched it out the moment it began to gain ground.
     
  3. Tate ▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬

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    A majority of DFOG wish swapping wasn't part of the game, but most of us do it anyway because without it you are put at a huge disadvantage. At the same time it gives value to certain pieces in the game, so you wouldn't want it totally removed (in my opinion).

    Some people suggest a new equip tab that you can place gear into and it swaps between your main gear and swap gear with one button (Kind of like a dual skill build license.)
     
  4. SuperHealMan Full time Nekomancer

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    As much as swapping helped us I personally think swapping was just another way to cover up a weak point in a class. (It eats so much gold to get a full swap set....)
    I think I know what you guys are talking about for switching gears for a skill like Guillotine on a necromancer where you swap the Level 85 epic wand for it's 40% damage buff into a better weapon before it hits for added damage and that I feel is stupid and should be patched out.
     
  5. Tsurugi

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    Swapping in this game is shit. I play monk a class that's not as powerful as the others in this game. In order for me not to be in a situation where I'm hitting a damage sponge I need to swap. I have to swap Chonicle, Weapon, Title, Pet and Avatar just to be "ok". This is very annoying in something that's supposed to be a "Beat em Up" game. Imagine having to stop and swap in Final Fight, Nekketsu Oyako, Dynasty Warriors (Shin Sangokumusou), God Hand etc. The other problem I have is how much better some swap gear is better than other classes that make them OP.

    I read that Arad Senki has a swap feature but its buggy and or causes lag. It would be nice for them to fix that if they plan on keeping the current way of buffing. For chronicle gear I think you should be able to somehow fuse the effects of the set into an orb or something and imbue it on a weapon and it stays permanent. In all honesty though, I'd rather see it removed.
     
  6. Shirouzen Monster of God

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    It's my opinion that they should remove swapping completely, but the main problem is that things are so ingrained into the "grind culture" of DnF (like buff crusaders) that a huge revamp like that may never come since people have invested so much in getting those swap equips.

    The best solution to appease both parties would be an auto buff mechanic which would allow you pick the best item to buff with in your inventory or something in the game system which could tally up all your highest skills for a swap without actually swapping.
     
  7. (Response)
    They should remove the buff gear and just implement them into the skills themselves. For example: Mana Burst is 42% with no buff swap gear. With maximum buff swapping it reaches 89%. If I die, I need to spend time to put on my buff swap gear while dead, revive, cast my buff again, and swap back to my damage set. If I do not do this, I lose about half my damage. This is problematic against some bosses that have a small window frame where they are vulnerable, that you want to revive immediately and do damage before they are invincible again. They should just make Mana Burst at 89% at master level. Other classes, such as saint, necro, elementalist, etc. have so much they need to swap that they are playing Inventory Fighter Online and not Dungeon Fighter Online.

    If buff gear playstyle is here to stay forever, then at least make the cooldown to 5 seconds instead of 10 seconds in PVE when switching equipment. Or a one button switch equipment gear tab like many other MMORPGs out there.
     
  8. Aeon Has an affinity with shortswords

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    Personally I am ok with swapping. There are mainly two complaints I have:
    1)Latency tends to be mellow when solo, but when in a party/crowded channel it goes to shit.(atleast for me...probably just network issues)
    2) The need to re-swap when you die, as well as the 10 second cool down.

    I think that swapping adds some fun to the game(but screw the damn latency). Now if you are talking about skills snapshotting, like swapping out gear for burst skill level. I'd rather you guys just be rid of that since not all classes have that to their arsenal and it ends up complicating things when you make balances.(I suppose this applies to classes relying way too much/little on buff swaps aswell?)
     
  9. Isa Sheep

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    As an Elementalist main, I can safely say I swap more than 99.9% of players, and the degree of swapping is sometimes extremely stressful. On top of the normal Elemental Burn swapping, you have absolutely crazy necessary real-time swapping to maximize the Elementalist's "snapshot" (stats taken on start of cast) skills. And it's absolutely ridiculous sometimes the amount of work she has to do to just break average, especially in this new non-burst meta. On top of that if a swap, especially a snapshot swap, is failed for whatever reason, the results can end up being extremely punishing. A lot of the times when I click on equips they refuse to swap, and that's a major issue I'm having. For example, I know a popular thing to do for Elementalist in Korea is to snapshot from from Burning Mana into Nature Guardian. But sometimes my latency with the game prevents me from swapping properly in a real-situation, and the result is about 50% less damage than I should be doing if I just stayed with something like Dark Gothic.
    I am quite alright with buff swapping. I think that's alright and you should have to put in a little work to make your character stronger in that way. The Infinite Buff patch really helped out to that end. However, there are other things I am not okay with, like my class's reliance on having to swap mid-fighting to achieve damage that is barely "on-par" with that of other classes. I think Neople needs to seriously take a look at classes like these who RELY on this type mechanism to compete for damage with relatively the same equips. I want to play DUNGEON and Fighter, not INVENTORY and Fighter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  10. Necrofancy Blame Blob™

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    There's about four different kinds of switching:

    One is where one setup is great, but only in one particular room. Tog killing sets, Full Plate for Super Armor, etc. is good and fun. Any changes to "fix" the remaining kinds of swapping should avoid hitting this, because it adds some depth and consideration to the game.

    Two is switching gear for buffs. It's a part of the gearing process, in which perma-buffs helped a lot. It serves a lot of purposes; keeping OV content among other things as a method of improving your character, giving incentive to buy more cash shop/event package items (skill titles, avatars/plats, etc), so I don't think Neople has much of an incentive to remove it from the game. But it takes time every dungeon start or token, and it's an annoyance to some people. The best solution, to please all parties involved, would be to make separate equipment fields for buffing gears, so that players don't actually have to swap at the start of dungeons/tokens to get the benefits of their swap gear.

    Three is switching gear mid-skill to retain certain gear properties or effects. The biggest problem is that, eventually, it leads to the character's "viable" performance compared to the rest of the cast being very dependent on those gear switches. This was especially a problem for Male Spitfire a while back, and Elementalist now, because that dependency was on an entire set of gear rather than just a weapon. I'd rather they get rid of it than try to balance around it, or worse, inadvertently balancing around it and leaving a class fairly crippled over it.

    Switching between just a weapon (and one single other slot) like Necromancer with Guillotine and Kunoichi with Leave Afterimage (35 skill) and their 85 epic weapons was/is kind of fun to work with, but they still have the same problem of classes being dependent on it (and those would instantly be a problem when there's a new level cap and new more powerful gear introduced). It's not worth the consequences in balancing, but in the short term, I actually have some fun planning around using those.

    As I said, they should be removed, but it shouldn't be just the popular switches; it needs to be comprehensive. For example, I'm pretty sure Living Dead has the exact same retaining of properties that Elementalist skills do (retaining attacks), that was another major part of why Lord of Darkness + Queen's Dagger was such a nutty combo in 85-86cap. I'm pretty sure Neople was inadvertently balancing around it in the recent balance patch (especially in test server, where they were planning on leaving Living Dead completely unbuffed).

    Fourth is swapping around chance-based effects (proc swapping). I think, for certain swaps like Ancient Elven Rings and some other procs, it's a tradeoff of much higher micromanagement for some more damage, which is honestly fine. The most glaring problem is with Amnesia Ring or Time Defier set resetting first and second awakening actives. Some actives are too much of an ace in the hole (Crusader's first awakening, followed distantly by a lot of classes' second awakening actives) for this to be remotely balanced. The easiest fix to that is just remove certain skill ranges (primarily First and Second Awakening actives) from having cooldowns reset.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

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